Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-02-2008, 10:33 AM   #141
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by TickTock View Post
True. The Census numbers are per household, and don't adjust for number of people in the household. Would be interesting to know that number. Would also be interesting to have it broken down by single income and double income household of four.
If you're looking for income data, the Current Population Survey has lots of breakdowns. (I'll admit that I often don't find exactly the one I want.)
Family Income TOC

It so happens that "median income for a family of four" is used as an index for at least one federal program. So the Census publishes that number here: Income - Median Income for 4-Person Families, by State

I figured that $67,000 in 2005 probably converted to "about" $70,000 in 2008. If I had been a little more careful with the math, I would have said $72,000.
__________________

__________________
Independent is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-02-2008, 10:43 AM   #142
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 463
I did not know that. Thanks for the link!

Interesting - so median family of four income is somewhere around $72,000 - assuming a 20% tax burden, that's $4,800 /mo - which is towards the low end of Upper Middle Class for all households.
__________________

__________________
TickTock Rule Of Finance - heavily discount any promises of money/benefits to be paid to you in the future

"I've traded love for pennies, sold my soul for less" -Jim Croce, Age
TickTock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 12:25 PM   #143
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,687
Interesting to note that average houshold income (median) for 4 has only increased at 1.5 percent per year since 2000 - 2005
__________________
Running_Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 12:32 PM   #144
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,036
According to the wiki article we are upper class and, actually, in the top 5%. But I don't feel like it, mostly because we LBYM and save so much of our income. Based on "social class" we would be upper middle class according to Gilbert and Thompson's classification and middle class according to Beeghley's classification. Quite a wide range! So it looks like people still disagree on what middle class means.

Also notice that the median number of income earners per households is 2 for the two highest quintiles but only 1 for the three lowest. So it seems to imply that nowadays it takes two paychecks to move up the social ladder.
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 01:55 PM   #145
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
That's a resonable size house in a lot of places it would have cost way more than $400,000 . Sometimes I think some of this board is in La La land about house prices in other areas .
Location is everything. We're in a 5-year-old 1750 sf house wi/2 car garage in a golf course community, it backs up to a creek and beyond that a flood plain that can never be built on. Here, houses like that are now going for about $280K.

Put the same house/similar setting in Bethesda, MD just north of Washington, DC and you're looking at maybe $4-5 million.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 03:24 PM   #146
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 34
This thread has me frightened to death to start a family but I eventually will.
Reading this board has made me conscious that I MUST save as much now before I get married and have kids.

Unfortunately these people will be hitting rock bottom in no time.

My expenses are below.
$5,100 - Net Pay (after taxes, paying healthcare, and putting $1291 into 401K each month (for 15.5 yearly max))

$1,341 - Mortgage, Taxes, & Insurance (on 2 bedroom Condo)
$300 - Groceries and supplies
$200 - Gas
$100 - Car Ins
$150 - Electricity & Gas
$169 - Condo Fee (Includes water)
$71 - Cell Phone
$416 - Roth IRA (Will be eligible this year)
$500 - Discretionary Spending (saving for travel, going out to a bar once a week, etc)

$3,247 - Total

$1,853 - Net Savings
The net savings each month goes to my taxable brokerage account.

Currently have 6 months base expenses saved (~14k), could lower expenses even lower (Romane Noodles, etc) if looking for a new job (as I too am in IT.)
__________________
EarlyRetiree1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 03:34 PM   #147
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyRetiree1978 View Post
Reading this board has made me conscious that I MUST save as much now before I get married and have kids.
Absolutely the smartest thing you can do for yourself long term is exactly that.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 03:48 PM   #148
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Absolutely the smartest thing you can do for yourself long term is exactly that.
Not having children in the first place would be even smarter.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 03:49 PM   #149
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyRetiree1978 View Post
Reading this board has made me conscious that I MUST save as much now before I get married and have kids.
#2) Don't get married.
#3) Don't have kids. You will have a MUCH better retirement.
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 03:53 PM   #150
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
#2) Don't get married.
#3) Don't have kids. You will have a MUCH better retirement.
True, until you become dependent. Then you are on your own or paying for care unless you have kids to help you.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 03:53 PM   #151
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
Not having children in the first place would be even smarter.
Different strokes.

Let's not get into that one, eh?
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 04:09 PM   #152
Full time employment: Posting here.
Urchina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Coast, California
Posts: 891
Our monthly budget (not including savings) is about $5500 a month, and we live in a very high COL area. Part of the way we keep our budget low is by making trade-offs (and I suspect most of us do). For example, we have two little kids and yet live in a 900-sq-ft condo. This keeps our house payment, taxes and HOA fees at around $2600/month. We figure that we can stay here until the kids are 6 and 4, respectively, and just need more room.

We also have two cars -- a luxury my parents didn't have when I was little, and we were squarely middle-class (my dad had a professional job, my mom stayed home).

To the OP: $600/month for a car seems like a lot, though I can understand how you got there based on past experiences. As an alternative, I used to have an '83 Volvo sedan that cost me $100/month, including repairs, gas, and insurance. Had the car for 13 years until it failed smog a couple of years ago and the state paid me $1000 to junk it.

And as for getting married / having kids -- if life were just about the money, we'd all ride the bus and be single (or DINKS).
__________________
"You'd be surprised at how much it costs to look this cheap." -- Dolly Parton
Urchina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 04:22 PM   #153
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
True, until you become dependent. Then you are on your own or paying for care unless you have kids to help you.
Correctly planning for retirement should mean you would not need to depend on your kids. I think the biggest gift I could give my kids (bigger then paying for there college education) is being independent during retirement and not having to smooch off them.

I love kids so I eventually will have them. Just fear all that goes along with them. I ESPECIALLY fear divorce. A prenup will take care of that though.
__________________
EarlyRetiree1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 04:23 PM   #154
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
True, until you become dependent. Then you are on your own or paying for care unless you have kids to help you.
Believe me, the kids will cost you WAY more than paying for your own care or purchasing LTC insurance. They're the gifts that keep on taking.
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 04:30 PM   #155
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Different strokes.
No, it's not really a subjective issue. From a purely financial perspective, having children is almost always the worst decision any person can make.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 05:00 PM   #156
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Quote:
From a purely financial perspective, having children is almost always the worst decision any person can make.
On t
__________________
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 05:24 PM   #157
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
No, it's not really a subjective issue. From a purely financial perspective, having children is almost always the worst decision any person can make.
At what point in life would a society, dictated by finance incentives, implementing laws which would not allow for the birth of any children affect the quality of a 43 year old early retiree's life?

Every child raised correctly will be a contributing member to society and provide the brainpower and brawnpower to enable an older retiree who has saved his time in the form of money to give in compensation to other's children for their time and therefore all benefit financially from every productive child.

Therefore, since it appears obvious to me that without children to replenish the workplace and increase the population to provide for the inherent growth in value of stocks that most astute retirees count on retirement would not be possible without them, they all must be contributing value in excess of the amount I earned in my life since the increase in stock value comes from the growth they make possible.
__________________
Running_Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 05:34 PM   #158
Recycles dryer sheets
barbarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by TickTock View Post
Lower limits for:

Second quintile (Lower Middle Classs) $18,500/yr = $1,542/mo
Third quintile (Middle Class) $34,738/yr = $2,895/mo
Fourth quintile (Upper Middle Class) $55,331/yr = $4,611/mo
Fifith quintile (Upper Class) $88,030/yr = $7,336/mo
These may well represent the numeric quintiles, but the labels are manure. A family or even an individual earning $90K is in NO WAY upper class. Some clueless prole uploaded this to Wiki.

One needs to read Class by Paul Fussell before they can even begin to comment on the class structure of Western society.
__________________
Consult with only myself as your adviser or representative. My thoughts should be construed as investment advice of the highest caliber. Past performance is but a pale shadow and guarantee of even greater results in the future.
barbarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 05:36 PM   #159
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,036
My wife and I don't have any kids by choice. Our decision was not based upon financial considerations but rather upon the fact that, objectively, neither of us would make a good parent. That being said the fact we don't have kids will tremendously contribute to our ability to FIRE at a rather young age. But I would caution anyone against the risk of foregoing parenthood for purely financial reasons. They might regret it later. So I think it is a very personal choice and I respect other people's decision to have kids or not, even when they don't respect mine.
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 05:57 PM   #160
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,687
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbarus View Post
These may well represent the numeric quintiles, but the labels are manure. A family or even an individual earning $90K is in NO WAY upper class. Some clueless prole uploaded this to Wiki.

One needs to read Class by Paul Fussell before they can even begin to comment on the class structure of Western society.
That would be the New York Times : here is the link to the article that WIKI uses, you can plug in your own information to see where you rate in the country. Use 2005 numbers though: From what I see by inflation that would correlate to about 97,000 in todays dollars

Graphic: How Class Works - New York Times
__________________

__________________
Running_Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beyond Subprime barbarus FIRE and Money 0 12-14-2007 12:57 AM
How Many Switched Careers on Here?? FinanceDude Other topics 24 11-13-2007 06:34 PM
FIRE Friendly Careers ambition187 Young Dreamers 30 05-08-2007 10:31 AM
Careers for the future Spanky Young Dreamers 24 11-21-2005 03:11 PM
Educational Careers: Teacher's Schedule? BigMoneyJim Young Dreamers 14 12-10-2004 07:12 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:13 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.