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Old 05-19-2016, 11:54 AM   #141
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You would need to have a sourse of income other then ss and your portfolio to be able to just invest the ss and not draw out the same amount.


Without a pension that covers every thing or other sources of income many of us could never do that. I count on our portfolio while delaying
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:01 PM   #142
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Either that or you don't withdraw as much from your assets and you let them accrue -- as long as the market isn't going like it is these days.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:03 PM   #143
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You would need to have a sourse of income other then ss and your portfolio to be able to just invest the ss and not draw out the same amount.
Seems pretty obvious mathjak107. If you have to have your SS to survive, then there is no need to make a decision about when to take it. You must start it early. The whole discussion of when to start SS assumes you have the choice. Otherwise, why discuss it?
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Without a pension that covers every thing or other sources of income many of us could never do that. I count on our portfolio while delaying
Exactly. You had the choice of either delaying SS and living off other resources or starting SS, living off other resources and investing the income. (Most people who do this simply "invest" the SS income by reducing their WR.)

If you can afford to delay, you can afford to start early and invest the income.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:06 PM   #144
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If we are talking investing the ss then liquidating any of the portfolio negates the same amount coming in from the ss.

In
our case we don't need the ss so we will delay but i do need to eat and pay rent so the portfolio is supporting us by providing 75% of our nut .

So if we filed early we would just spend the ss instead of the portfolio but in any case we need one of them to live
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:07 PM   #145
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For married folks without the GPO problem, you should still consider the value of foregone earnings on collected early SS benefits in your calculations. It's way too big a number to ignore.
The difference is that yes, you might be able to invest the early bennies and more than make up the difference, but the payment on waiting is guaranteed. We have all of our current assets in the market now, with market being stocks, bonds, and real estate, and that's a chancy enough number for me. Knowing that when I die DW, who doesn't like to fiddle with financial issues, will have a healthy guaranteed chunk of income is worth more to us than the potential of making a bit more in the market. If the market goes up, we're part of it already. If it goes sideways or down, that COLA'd income stream will be a godsend.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:16 PM   #146
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Either that or you don't withdraw as much from your assets and you let them accrue -- as long as the market isn't going like it is these days.
Yes. I did it by simply not withdrawing as much as I would have without the early SS. That is, my WR dropped by about $20k and my FIRE portfolio benefited correspondingly.

And, yes, the strategy is like all investing. It is dependent on returns.

I shouldn't speak so soon since I'm only 7 years into an 8 year plan, but so far the results are gratifying. I protected GPO-impacted DW without sacrificing future income.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:18 PM   #147
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I wouldn't get to wrapped up in the aspects of survivor benefits if you are not going to go beyond fra. The survivor is not penalized if you file at 62 . They only get a cut if they file before their own fra .
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:27 PM   #148
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The difference is that yes, you might be able to invest the early bennies and more than make up the difference, but the payment on waiting is guaranteed.
That's very true. Thus, the eternal "annuity" argument. We're comfortable with the amount of future income we'll have sourced from annuities (pensions actually) vs the amount of future income sourced from the FIRE portfolio. And we tried to choose an AA that also reflects our personal circumstances and risk tolerance. You need to do the same for yourself.
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We have all of our current assets in the market now, with market being stocks, bonds, and real estate, and that's a chancy enough number for me. Knowing that when I die DW, who doesn't like to fiddle with financial issues, will have a healthy guaranteed chunk of income is worth more to us than the potential of making a bit more in the market.
Remember, the reason I started SS early was to protect my GPO-impacted DW. Having it turn out that I'll actually have slightly increased my ongoing income at 70 yo was just a fortunate outcome of investment conditions while I was investing the early SS dollars.
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If the market goes up, we're part of it already. If it goes sideways or down, that COLA'd income stream will be a godsend.
In our case, DW will not get a penny of my COLA'd SS income stream so I acted to protect her. The, so far, happy results were not counted on but are appreciated.

For folks not impacted by GPO or other similar circumstances related to protecting someone who will not collect any of your SS as a spousal, minor child or survivor benefit, it does seem that it would still make sense to consider the most likely investment returns on SS dollars collected early. Dollar cost averaging $20k (pick you number) a year into the S and P 500 (or similar) for 8 years has the potential to be profitable. Or, like all investing, it might not.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:38 PM   #149
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If we are talking investing the ss then liquidating any of the portfolio negates the same amount coming in from the ss.

In
our case we don't need the ss so we will delay but i do need to eat and pay rent so the portfolio is supporting us by providing 75% of our nut .

So if we filed early we would just spend the ss instead of the portfolio but in any case we need one of them to live
It was no problem for us. We have pretty good self control and the SS checks flowing in did not cause us to spend more. We spent the same amount but withdrew less (the amount of the incoming SS) from the portfolio.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:39 PM   #150
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Our reason for delaying is we want to be less dependent on markets and rates. We can take a hit by delaying a few years and spending from our portfolio and reduce spending from it for up to decades.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:39 PM   #151
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It was no problem for us. We have pretty good self control and the SS checks flowing in did not cause us to spend more. We spent the same amount but withdrew less from the portfolio.
Youbet, youbet. We did the same.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:40 PM   #152
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My husband filed before FRA but older than 62. I think it's optimum for us. He gets 90% of what he would have got at FRA. I will delay mine until I'm either FRA or 70. So between the two of us we will be able to stretch this SS thing.
Another thing that I didn't know and read from the book by Janet Quinn Bryant , How to make your money last, retirement guide. If something happens to my husband and I'm at least 60, I will be able to get 90- 100% of his current SS. Not sure about the exact amount. But close enough. I can live on his SS and delay mine until FRA or 70.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:43 PM   #153
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I started collecting survivor benes as soon as I could, age 60. All I had to do was not remarry. I will wait until FRA and then collect on my own account which will double my bene.

Might as well collect her dough first, she's not going to.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:45 PM   #154
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At 60 you get his full x.71 . That would be more then his early benefit double cut because you filed early too. There is a floor in place to avoid being cut to much .
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Old 05-19-2016, 01:12 PM   #155
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I rigged in a little more and I get .71 even in my 50s for survivor benefit, more after age 60-FRA.
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Old 05-19-2016, 01:20 PM   #156
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But to collect before 60 you need to meet some special situations like kids or disability's ,etc
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Old 05-19-2016, 01:35 PM   #157
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Right, I think I misread on another page. Still good to be able to collect at 60.
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Old 05-19-2016, 02:04 PM   #158
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Survivor at 60 is x.71 off husbands full or x.81 at 62
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