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Old 11-02-2019, 08:11 PM   #21
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The tax debate reminds me of being in Greece where every merchant really wanted cold, hard cash.

Hey, I want to bring up a reverse point to this. My credit union will give you a really good rate on your savings account only if you use your debit card over 30 times per month.
That is a lot. My credit union will give their savings rate (now 1.75%, was 2% a few months ago) on checking if you do a few things, one of them being using their credit or debit card 10 times a month. Since we have about 5 or 6 bills set to autopay with their credit card it's a pretty easy thing to do. But 30 times?? Wow.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:37 PM   #22
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I bit of a tangent, but I recently gave a gift to charity. The gift was $1K. My credit card was charged for about $1,025. I guess some financial entities have figured out how not to have to bear the burden of the credit card fees. Note, I didn’t mind but it was interesting as I had never seen that done before.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:55 PM   #23
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When "computer fairs" were frequent and popular in my area (from the mid-1990s to early 2010s), and a cheaper way to buy components, discounts for cash were common among many of the vendors.
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:35 PM   #24
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When we travel in Asia it is not unusual for some vendors to charge extra for credit card transactions..usually 3 percent.

When we travel in parts of Europe we often ask is there is a discount for cash. There usually in smaller hotels, b and b's. Usually ten percent. Others request cash at time of booking.

We pay everything we can by credit card providing there is no upcharge. Insurance, utiliites, dental, etc.
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Old 11-03-2019, 06:00 AM   #25
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But 30 times?? Wow.
3.00% APR on the first $10k in the account. I'm not a fan of this. I always said when I retired, I'd do things like write letters or have meetings with board members and express my displeasure. But that's boring.

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I bit of a tangent, but I recently gave a gift to charity. The gift was $1K. My credit card was charged for about $1,025. I guess some financial entities have figured out how not to have to bear the burden of the credit card fees.
There VERY LIKELY was some fine print on this, and possibly a small box to opt out of the automatic CC charge.

As a treasurer of a non-profit, I was very aware of this. We chose to not enable those automatic charges, but instead just put in a note to opt in. Frankly, for our small charity, anything we got was gravy, and credit cards were really the only way people would give.
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Old 11-03-2019, 06:18 AM   #26
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For the record, I know a guy that hid a lot "under the table'. Guess what, his SS was not much when he retired.

Call me anal, but anymore, every tip goes on the CC. If I can pay taxes, you can pay taxes. Sorry, just me.
That's my concern and, to answer a previous question, I have no affiliation with the IRS other than as a taxpayer. People like the guy described above eventually end up on needs-based social programs because they evaded SS.

In addition to not paying their fair share of the cost of public benefits (roads, police force, etc.) these businesses may be evading other responsibilities. I made the mistake of having some guys passing by in a truck trim some of my trees. Their flyer said they were "fully insured". I paid by check and he came back an hour later frantic because he couldn't cash it because my bank was out-of-state. I had to go to the ATM and get real cash. Yes, it's POSSIBLE that he was accurately recording payroll/income and reporting it to his liability and Worker's Comp insurers. If, OTOH, he had zero coverage I might have been liable if they'd been injured and they might not have had coverage if a branch fell and destroyed part of my property.
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Old 11-03-2019, 07:22 AM   #27
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I bit of a tangent, but I recently gave a gift to charity. The gift was $1K. My credit card was charged for about $1,025. I guess some financial entities have figured out how not to have to bear the burden of the credit card fees. Note, I didn’t mind but it was interesting as I had never seen that done before.
I see that more and more, where when giving online there is a checkbox asking if you'll pay the fees for your having donated via credit card. I go ahead and do it.
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:04 AM   #28
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Here in our end of paradise, 65 miles from Paradise and 325 miles from Hell, there is a growing number of stores that do the upcharge. Also a number of services-haircut, dog groomer and the like that do not take CC/DC but will take your check.

A couple of our frequently shopped retailers have provided us with an instore charge, to get around the fee.
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:16 AM   #29
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I made the mistake of having some guys passing by in a truck trim some of my trees. Their flyer said they were "fully insured". I paid by check and he came back an hour later frantic because he couldn't cash it because my bank was out-of-state. I had to go to the ATM and get real cash. Yes, it's POSSIBLE that he was accurately recording payroll/income and reporting it to his liability and Worker's Comp insurers. If, OTOH, he had zero coverage I might have been liable if they'd been injured and they might not have had coverage if a branch fell and destroyed part of my property.
I've paid 3 contractors this year by check to avoid paying their 3% surcharges for using a credit card. I don't have a local bank. None had a problem with my checks.
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:23 AM   #30
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Edit: Re debit cards, I know there was recent litigation because card processors were charging merchants the same price for CCs and for debit cards. I don't know how or if it got settled however. As a former merchant, I would probably not give a different discount for the two types just because of the amount of screwing around that might be necessary to differentiate them. Maybe in a highly automated environment like a grocery store it would be feasible to do this, though.
Gas stations have been trying to steer customers to debit cards for years. Swipe (or insert) your card and the screen shows some very misleading wording to try to get you to press the "right" button. At the place I usually go to, you have to know to press "cancel" or your credit card is used as a debit card, instead.

Apparently, merchant fees on debit cards are much lower.

Many of the chain gas stations around here now offer a "members" price of about 10 cents less per gallon. By "member," they mean someone who has signed up for direct withdrawal from their checking account, instead of paying by credit or debit card. Apparently, that's even cheaper.

I still get 5% off gas using my PenFed card, which means at anything over $2/gallon I'm getting more than 10 cents off anyway, so I've avoided both debit cards and memberships.
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:57 AM   #31
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I remember as a kid in the early 70s standing in line behind someone who was asking for a discount for cash and patiently explained the fees on the new VISA card (remember those three stripes) to the merchant. It was an education for me. Fast forward 50 years and banking and credit card companies have perfected the art of shaving the 'Golden Crumbs' or in the case of monthly interest charges just taking a third of the cake. More power to the butcher and those paying cash!
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Old 11-03-2019, 09:05 AM   #32
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That's my concern and, to answer a previous question, I have no affiliation with the IRS other than as a taxpayer. People like the guy described above eventually end up on needs-based social programs because they evaded SS.

In addition to not paying their fair share of the cost of public benefits (roads, police force, etc.) these businesses may be evading other responsibilities. I made the mistake of having some guys passing by in a truck trim some of my trees. Their flyer said they were "fully insured". I paid by check and he came back an hour later frantic because he couldn't cash it because my bank was out-of-state. I had to go to the ATM and get real cash. Yes, it's POSSIBLE that he was accurately recording payroll/income and reporting it to his liability and Worker's Comp insurers. If, OTOH, he had zero coverage I might have been liable if they'd been injured and they might not have had coverage if a branch fell and destroyed part of my property.
+1000

My 10 years in logging and sawmills convinced me to NEVER believe a trimmer or logger. They go out of the way to not be insured or legal.
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Old 11-03-2019, 09:21 AM   #33
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I bit of a tangent, but I recently gave a gift to charity. The gift was $1K. My credit card was charged for about $1,025. I guess some financial entities have figured out how not to have to bear the burden of the credit card fees. Note, I didn’t mind but it was interesting as I had never seen that done before.
For some of the charities that I give to online they give me the option to increase the donation for x% to cover their credit card fees.... I wonder if you inadvertently elected to do that.
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Old 11-03-2019, 09:24 AM   #34
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Yeah, except that I'm always skeptical of businesses that are all or mostly cash. Do they pay taxes on all of it? It's just a lot easier to evade the IRS, avoid paying into SS, etc. My local pro footbal.baseball stadium offers a discount if you pay for parking on-line but if you just show up with your car it's $60. CASH.

Closer to the OT, I once tried to fill my car at a gas station and found that they took only cash or debit cards- a detail not posted on the sign showing the price. Their prices matched the one down the street that DID take credit cards. I thought that was pretty darned deceptive. I left without getting any gas.

It's interesting how brainwashed our society has become, if you accept cash "a legal form of tender" you must be breaking the law and not paying taxes/ss etc.


It's logical and courteous to offer a cash discount as it's been mentioned most businesses don't have high margins and if they can save a few dollars it's great that they pass that on to us.


I deal with a fair amount of contractors and a high percentage of transactions I get a decent discount if I pay with cash (sometimes I don't even ask and they offer) I assume that they are paying taxes/ss and since I'm paying cash I doubt they think it's drug money
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Old 11-03-2019, 09:24 AM   #35
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Gas stations have been trying to steer customers to debit cards for years. Swipe (or insert) your card and the screen shows some very misleading wording to try to get you to press the "right" button. At the place I usually go to, you have to know to press "cancel" or your credit card is used as a debit card, instead. ...
How would my credit card be used as a debit card when I don't have a bank account (either savings or checking) at any of the banks that issue my credit cards?
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Old 11-03-2019, 09:26 AM   #36
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That's my concern and, to answer a previous question, I have no affiliation with the IRS other than as a taxpayer. People like the guy described above eventually end up on needs-based social programs because they evaded SS.

In addition to not paying their fair share of the cost of public benefits (roads, police force, etc.) these businesses may be evading other responsibilities. ...
I get all that. What I don't get from yours or any other outraged posts is why you are spun up about it. There are lots of things to not like, ranging from corrupt government officials to excesses in the UN budget. I can't imagine having the energy to get spun up about everything I don't like and I don't understand why this one is at all special.
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:49 PM   #37
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It's interesting how brainwashed our society has become, if you accept cash "a legal form of tender" you must be breaking the law and not paying taxes/ss etc.

It's logical and courteous to offer a cash discount as it's been mentioned most businesses don't have high margins and if they can save a few dollars it's great that they pass that on to us.

I deal with a fair amount of contractors and a high percentage of transactions I get a decent discount if I pay with cash (sometimes I don't even ask and they offer) I assume that they are paying taxes/ss and since I'm paying cash I doubt they think it's drug money
Completely agree. Taking cash in order to evade taxes certainly occurs but the idea that I should pay an extra 3-5% for every last thing I purchase for the 'convenience' of not having to carry cash around is sadly hilarious. Credit card companies add very little in the way of value to the world (AFAIK) and their interest rates are usurious (though I know that they would say that there are many really, really good reasons that they should be so high).
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:14 PM   #38
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Most of us here have cash back credit cards that return 1.5% - 2% of purchases, so a 3% cash discount is really 1% - 1.5%. Paying with credit card has other benefits, so I’ll continue to use it and disregard the cash discounts.
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Old 11-03-2019, 03:35 PM   #39
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I just saved 5˘ a gallon on gas by using cash.
My barber and barkeep do not accept credit cards. The barber has an ATM, the bar owner will run a tab if he knows you. Both felt the CC companies were getting to much a cut of their business.
I'm sure they both pay their taxes.
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Old 11-03-2019, 03:43 PM   #40
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This thread is really making me laugh, thinking about all those predictions about a cashless society being right around the corner.
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