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Old 11-04-2019, 11:15 AM   #61
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Last month we rented a condo on a Greek Island for a five days. 350E credit card through booking.com or 250E cash direct.

Which option do you think we chose
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:34 AM   #62
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Last month we rented a condo on a Greek Island for a five days. 350E credit card through booking.com or 250E cash direct.

Which option do you think we chose

Obviously you want to make sure you get your 1% cash back and you want to be a good global citizen making sure everyone "pays their fair share" (Go Bernie!) so you used a credit card?
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:01 AM   #63
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Sigh ... I get that. Here is what I don't understand:

The illogic that says merchants preferring cash are tax cheats and that all cash tips go unreported*. Both conclusions are prima facie false.
The way I'd express it is that it's far easier to cheat on taxes with a cash-based business.
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:41 AM   #64
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The way I'd express it is that it's far easier to cheat on taxes with a cash-based business.

An analogy: not everyone who buys cough syrup is going to make meth, but that's why they require ID now, to allow for legitimate purchases but to detect and deter purchases with illegal intent. When you detect certain behavior that is often a precursor to illegal behavior, you should be on your guard if you want to prevent it. And there's no denying that tax evasion harms us all, even if the harm from each particular instance is (usually) undetectable.
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Old 11-05-2019, 09:30 AM   #65
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I deal with a fair amount of contractors and a high percentage of transactions I get a decent discount if I pay with cash (sometimes I don't even ask and they offer) I assume that they are paying taxes/ss and since I'm paying cash I doubt they think it's drug money
It probably depends on what a "decent" discount is. If they are offering much more than 3% off for cash then they probably aren't paying taxes on it.

I once had a tree trimmer offer a big discount for cash. His ad said he took all major credit cards. When I pulled out my credit card, he said he'd take off 15% for cash. He said he LOVED cash and winked at me. Never used him again.
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:01 AM   #66
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I once had a tree trimmer offer a big discount for cash. His ad said he took all major credit cards. When I pulled out my credit card, he said he'd take off 15% for cash. He said he LOVED cash and winked at me. Never used him again.
Those people leave me wondering how they cheated me.
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:09 AM   #67
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Those people leave me wondering how they cheated me.
Right. Not only do they not pay taxes, I obviously overpaid.

I know it's normal for some contractors to "negotiate", so I'm willing to do so. But, when they say $1,000 and I come back with $600 (and they take it), then I feel like they were trying to rip me off in the first place. But, that's a whole new topic
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:16 AM   #68
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... When you detect certain behavior that is often a precursor to illegal behavior, you should be on your guard if you want to prevent it. ...
Agree totally, but what does "detect" mean. If the pharmacist "detects" someone buying pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) should he refuse the sale because .001% of pseudoephedrine buyers are making meth with it? If the buyer is asking to buy the pharmacy's whole stock, this might raise suspicion but when I come in with a runny nose I certainly don't want to leave without the medicine.

I would argue that in the vast majority of cases where a merchant prefers cash he/she is not a tax dodger. So IMO a preference for cash is not a way of "detecting" a tax dodger. But sometimes, as in the case of @PatrickA5's tree trimmer, "detect" probably applies.

With servers, "detect" is even harder because of the way the IRS forces restaurant owners to track and report cash tips. Not to say tax fraud doesn't happen but I have also read stories where the restaurant owner, following IRS rules, actually estimated and reported higher cash tip income than the server received.
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:25 AM   #69
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I don't assume that people who want to deal in cash are evading taxes, but you better believe that if I find out you are evading taxes I will never do business with you again. You are not robbing some anonymous "government". You're robbing me and the people like me who pay our taxes.

There is local family owned grocery chain around here whose owners got busted for tax evasion over 20 years ago (also the store itself for "thumb on the scale"). It is very popular, but I have never once returned to shop there since that happened.
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:30 AM   #70
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Until recently, it was not legal in Texas to add a surcharge for CC use. That changed in late 2018. But I still have not seen any local vendors adding a surcharge or offering a cash discount. I've heard it's happening in some rural areas, but just have not seen it anywhere we go. So fortunately, this appears to be a non-issue for us at the moment.

If I do start seeing it, I'll likely seek alternative vendors... probably Amazon in some cases, since I get 5% cash-back plus another 15-20% on subscribe and save items. Plus they deliver to my door, which reduces my cost even further.

For stuff we buy locally, I'll just continue to seek out the lowest overall net cost, including base price, cash discounts, and CC cash-back. I don't like the idea of carrying cash again or using a debit card, but if the result is a significantly lower net cost vs using the CC, I can adapt. If it's not much difference, I'll still use the CC for convenience, ease of tracking, and some of the purchase protection features.
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:15 PM   #71
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I thought this was a breach of contract with CC companies, as the butcher charging 2.99% more for CC. ??

I guess if it bothers you enough, you will bring some $50's next time, or shop somewhere else.

Would you get the "discount" if you pay with a debit card ?
before retirement i was state treasurer for a professional assn. i had a VISA/MC merchant account we used for our annual conference. our merchant agreement allowed discounts for cash but we could not set a minimum purchase amount or tack on any fees. maybe those agreements have changed since i see merchants doing both these days.
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:45 PM   #72
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I don't like to carry cash anymore

and usually avoid stores that charge more than by cash for paying with a credit/debit card or demanded cash only.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:00 PM   #73
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If the merchant saves money by not paying a credit card fee, Iím happy to take that cash discount. All those people using credit cards is a cost the merchants must pay, and it gets passed to all consumers, even ones not using credit cards.
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:31 AM   #74
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I have a local car repair shop that I use that gives a discount for cash.
LOVE that, and they love me coming in with my "real money". Even on over $1k purchases I'll do cash with them because whenever I call they ALWAYS work me in and get the work done quickly for me.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:26 AM   #75
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It is in violation of the vendorís contract with the cc. Venders can add a convince fee, but not a percentage.

If you see this happening, you can call the cc company and advise them of the vendorís practices.

If a vendor does not want to accept credit cards, Iím fine with that. But if the fo accept credit cards, it is part of the cost of doing business.

I know the contra argument is ďI donít want to pay higher costs to cover the cost....Ē, but cc are such a part of our digital life.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:34 AM   #76
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It is in violation of the vendorís contract with the cc. Venders can add a convince fee, but not a percentage.
...
Sorry, that was in the bad old days. You can chase down the details of the most recent class action suit to get the details on the new rules.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:53 AM   #77
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It is in violation of the vendor’s contract with the cc. Venders can add a convince fee, but not a percentage.
That is not true, actually, as convenience fees are legally considered a surcharge on the listed price that is only applied to credit card transactions, which is prohibited in card agreements (and by state law in seven states).

Since the Durbin Amendment passed almost 10 years ago, banks and processors are no longer allowed to prohibit credit card transaction minimums or cash discounts in their card agreements. The key is not the amount or percentage, but the advertised price. Merchants are allowed to offer a discount off of the listed price for paying with cash, but they are not allowed to charge more than the listed price (surcharge) for credit card transactions. The method of the discount is not part of the regulations or card agreements.

There is a lot of confusion about this, partially because in most places it is not subject to state law, but a matter of the merchant's credit card contract, and so the average business owner interprets it however they see fit...unless a customer (or maybe competitor) complains to the card provider. Therefore, as the article below points out, there are many examples of posted policies that are actually prohibited, leading people to think those policies are actually allowed.

This article explains it really well, with a lot of specifics and citations: https://www.cardfellow.com/blog/cash...ocessing-fees/
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:12 PM   #78
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Having run a number of businesses, I do not believe the specialty butcher business has high margins. Iíve become much more aware of how lucky I am in relation to the majority and donít sweat when a small business does this as long as they disclose it before I do my transaction.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:25 AM   #79
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As a consumer who is against duopolies like $MA and $V I am quite happy to see cash discounts being given. If the actual CC transaction fees were passed on to the consumer there would be more pressure to reduce the fee or otherwise more room for competitors. A win for the consumer and merchant.

I realize that electronic transactions can not be processed for free, but with modern technology I suspect there is a lot of room in between the fees that MA/V/DFS/PayPal charges and what some other companies could offer.....Where we would be discussing basis point differences instead of whole numbers.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:21 AM   #80
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Here in CT we have a pizza place we go to that excepts cash only. It is posted on their website, front door and counter. As a former small business owner that excepted cards I can't blame him. It takes money right out of you bottom line and most businesses like myself just raised prices.


If you don't like that policy then you can always take your business somewhere else.
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