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Old 06-21-2009, 07:37 AM   #101
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A friend of my said their are worse way to spend the stimulus and I suppose he is right.
If your friend has ideas to squander these stimilus funds, it is his/her patriotic duty to share them with congress.
Let's get the ball rolling---we are not quite broke yet.
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:09 AM   #102
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If your friend has ideas to squander these stimilus funds, it is his/her patriotic duty to share them with congress.
Let's get the ball rolling---we are not quite broke yet.
His suggestion was to pay bigger bonuses to the deserving folks in AIG's financial products group.

I'd also add distributing copies of Miss Manner's guide to addressing important people to all of our folks in the armed services, in case they ever have to talk to a female senator.
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Old 06-21-2009, 06:09 PM   #103
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His suggestion was to pay bigger bonuses to the deserving folks in AIG's financial products group.

I'd also add distributing copies of Miss Manner's guide to addressing important people to all of our folks in the armed services, in case they ever have to talk to a female senator.


Move over Bill Gates--Step aside Steve Jobs--There's a new gang in town--and they are CREATIVE!!
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:48 AM   #104
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There is a new website that the government has set up to explain the cash for clunkers program.

CARS.gov - Car Allowance Rebate System - Home

I'm still reviewing to see if anything useful is on there.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:00 AM   #105
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I have another idea -- if we want to keep improving energy conservation while propping up moribund industries, why stop at Cash for Clunkers?

How about "Money for McMansions?"
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:01 AM   #106
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From their FAQ:

"In addition to the credit, will I get the full value of my trade-in vehicle?

No. The law requires your trade-in vehicle to be destroyed. Therefore, the value you negotiate with the dealer for your trade-in vehicle is not likely to exceed its scrap value. The law requires the dealer to disclose to you an estimate of the scrap value of your trade-in vehicle."

This makes it sound like there may be a little room to negotiate some salvage value out of your trade-in. Not sure what typical scrap values are now, but a couple years ago you might be able to get at least a couple hundred out of a car. Depending on what kind of catalytic converter (if any), maybe more.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:02 AM   #107
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I have another idea -- if we want to keep improving energy conservation while propping up moribund industries, why stop at Cash for Clunkers?

How about "Money for McMansions?"
Our thoughtful administration has already done that. $8000 tax credit for new home purchases.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:05 AM   #108
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Our thoughtful administration has already done that. $8000 tax credit for new home purchases.
But you don't have to "trade in" a 4000 square foot home for an energy-efficient 1500 square foot home...
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:07 AM   #109
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So far I haven't seen anything preventing an individual from contracting with a third party who owns a clunker to buy a new vehicle from the dealer and immediately sell it to the individual. I think in most states that have it, you would owe a sales or use tax on the second title transfer from the clunker owner to you.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:08 AM   #110
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But you don't have to "trade in" a 4000 square foot home for an energy-efficient 1500 square foot home...
No, but you have a 30% tax credit (up to $1500 or unlimited depending on uses) to bling out your new McMansion with "energy efficient" stuff.

What a great time we live in - free money for everyone!!! And to think we were happy in the 1980's simply receiving free nasty government cheese...
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:32 AM   #111
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'Cash for Clunkers' won't help most car buyers - Jun. 25, 2009

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If you think the new "Cash for Clunkers" law is going to help you buy a new car, you're probably wrong.
As it's written, the law will benefit few car shoppers and those who might actually benefit from it probably shouldn't be buying a new car to begin with.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:49 AM   #112
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'Cash for Clunkers' won't help most car buyers - Jun. 25, 2009

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If you think the new "Cash for Clunkers" law is going to help you buy a new car, you're probably wrong.
As it's written, the law will benefit few car shoppers and those who might actually benefit from it probably shouldn't be buying a new car to begin with.
The basic premise is right on. But the math doesn't necessarily add up to the extent they claim. They say it doesn't necessarily make sense financially to trade in a gas hog and buy a new car, but it might actually be close to break even financially. Take an old 1980's beater that barely runs with a trade in value equal to it's scrap value. It's out of tune and gets 13 mpg. You drive an average of 1,000 miles a month. The replacement car you buy gets 30 mpg. If your new car can be obtained for $11,000 after the $4500 credit (and there are plenty of domestic and foreign alternatives available at this price and in this economy), then you are looking at car payments of $200 a month for 5 years at 4% interest. You are saving $113 a month in fuel expenses, plus paying $200 more on the loan, plus a little more for insurance and property taxes. But you will avoid a lot of maintenance expenses on your new car. And after five years, you have a five year old car you own free and clear with much lower operating costs than your old gas hog clunker.

So unless you are absolutely destitute or need the large amounts of space that many clunkers provide, you may be better off long term by buying a new car.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:10 AM   #113
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Has anyone noticed if the price of "almost new" cars has dropped in the last couple of weeks? It seems like this program would potentially cause the demand for "nearly new" cars to drop.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:48 AM   #114
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From their FAQ:

"In addition to the credit, will I get the full value of my trade-in vehicle?

No. The law requires your trade-in vehicle to be destroyed. Therefore, the value you negotiate with the dealer for your trade-in vehicle is not likely to exceed its scrap value. The law requires the dealer to disclose to you an estimate of the scrap value of your trade-in vehicle."

This makes it sound like there may be a little room to negotiate some salvage value out of your trade-in. Not sure what typical scrap values are now, but a couple years ago you might be able to get at least a couple hundred out of a car. Depending on what kind of catalytic converter (if any), maybe more.

I think you might be reading this wrong.... from what I read... you get the credit.... period.. you do not get scrap value, trade in value... anything else, just the credit..

Now, if you car was worth MORE than the credit, then why take the credit..

The car will be scrapped... taken apart and sold by pieces... I do not know who gets that money, but I hope it is the gvmt... it is they who are paying for it...
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:23 PM   #115
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I think you might be reading this wrong.... from what I read... you get the credit.... period.. you do not get scrap value, trade in value... anything else, just the credit..

Now, if you car was worth MORE than the credit, then why take the credit..

The car will be scrapped... taken apart and sold by pieces... I do not know who gets that money, but I hope it is the gvmt... it is they who are paying for it...
I think the car dealer gets to keep the proceeds from the scrap. I assumed it would get lost in the transaction, but it actually does have some real value, especially if you have a palladium loaded catalytic converter in there. So you could at least include that in your bargaining, though it probably wouldn't help much.
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:26 PM   #116
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I think you might be reading this wrong.... from what I read... you get the credit.... period.. you do not get scrap value, trade in value... anything else, just the credit..

Now, if you car was worth MORE than the credit, then why take the credit..

The car will be scrapped... taken apart and sold by pieces... I do not know who gets that money, but I hope it is the gvmt... it is they who are paying for it...
No the CARS website definitely makes it seem like you can get the scrap value. You don't get the trade-in value since the car gets scrapped, but the dealer shows you an estimate of the scrap value and so I guess you can negotiate for a portion/all of the scrap value. So you might get the $4500 credit plus an extra couple hundred for scrap.
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:56 PM   #117
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Think my daughter and SIL are going for this program. He has a 1999 Chevy Silverado 1500 pickup truck. About 100K miles on it. According to the requirements, it would qualify. They were not planning on buying but the other day the truck blew a plug right out of the head. Sounds like big problems. Now, all he has to do it get it running, go down and trade it in on a small fuel efficient car. They had just bought a new GMC diesel pickup so they don't need another truck. I think this program is just what the government ordered in their case.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:39 PM   #118
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No the CARS website definitely makes it seem like you can get the scrap value. You don't get the trade-in value since the car gets scrapped, but the dealer shows you an estimate of the scrap value and so I guess you can negotiate for a portion/all of the scrap value. So you might get the $4500 credit plus an extra couple hundred for scrap.
Going to the law would seem to say that you are right... that the one who is 'scrapping' the car can keep the proceeds... so it looks like you could say 'split it with me'...

SOOO, what is the scrap value of an old monte carlo




(2) DISPOSITION OF ELIGIBLE TRADE-IN VEHICLES-
(A) IN GENERAL- For each eligible trade-in vehicle
surrendered to a dealer under the Program, the dealer
shall certify to the Secretary, in such manner as the
Secretary shall prescribe by rule, that the dealer--
(i) has not and will not sell, lease, exchange, or
otherwise dispose of the vehicle for use as an
automobile in the United States or in any other
country; and
(ii) will transfer the vehicle (including the engine
block), in such manner as the Secretary prescribes,
to an entity that will ensure that the vehicle--
(I) will be crushed or shredded within such
period and in such manner as the Secretary
prescribes; and
(II) has not been, and will not be, sold,
leased, exchanged, or otherwise disposed of
for use as an automobile in the United States
or in any other country.
(B) SAVINGS PROVISION- Nothing in subparagraph (A)
may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from-
-
(i) selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other
than the engine block and drive train (unless with
respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive
shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts); or
(ii) retaining the proceeds from such sale.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:46 PM   #119
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OK.... still looking... but just makeing a wild guess from this site... $300 or so...

The site says catalytics are only in the $20 to $35 range... so I do not know where the $200 is from mentioned in the article...

"Car bodies are being bought for an average of $62.25 a ton, according to scrapindex.com, up almost $8 since February.
Rose noted that one catalytic converter, which contains platinum and other precious metals, can fetch up to $200 but may cost a car owner from $700 to $2,000 to replace"

Scrap-metal value causes rise in junk-car thefts - Kalamazoo Gazette - MLive.com
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:04 PM   #120
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OK.... still looking... but just makeing a wild guess from this site... $300 or so...

The site says catalytics are only in the $20 to $35 range... so I do not know where the $200 is from mentioned in the article...
Not sure what is up with that site. They are quoting $350/troy ounce for 24k gold scrap when spot prices for gold are over $900/oz. You can obviously melt down the gold for much much much much less than $550 an ounce. My local scrap metals dealer pays at least 90-95% of nymex spot for gold scrap. Similar story with copper - looks like they only pay 60-80% of the copper spot prices for scrap copper, the local scrap yard pays 80-90% for most of the high to medium grade copper.
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