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Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 06:20 PM   #1
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Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Before I make any move, I would like your advice. I enjoy this board and really like the spirit of the people on here. Here is the scenario:

I have quite a bit of equity in my primary residence. My current monthly payment (including taxes and insurance) is a little less than 14% of my monthly gross. I would like to refinance and pull out some cash and use that money to invest in index funds. My monthly payment including taxes and insurance would then be about 17% of my monthly gross after refi. I plan to stay in the house for a while and I wouldn't need the money in the market for at least 8 years. In fact, my plan is to never draw down my principal but to build up my portfolio to the point where I would need only a small SWR. I am in my late thirties and have a retirement plan at work in addition to a 401k plan. My assets are split about evenly between real estate (including some rentals), mutual funds and a little ETFs.

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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 07:40 PM   #2
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

What is your current interest rate and how many months do you have left to pay? What would your new interest rate be? What closing costs will you have to pay? Would the refi payoff on the same date as the original loan? Do you picture yourself keeping this home after you retire? How much money would you walk away from the refi with to invest? What is the Real Estate market like in your area are homes still appreciating? Is the trend forecasted to continue?

My first reaction to your question is don't do it. You have a very manageable debt load with this mortgage so if you're not carrying any personal debt just use your excellent cash flow to DCA into your new postion. If you think you still want to do this some of the questions you should consider are the ones above.
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 07:51 PM   #3
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

From an asset building perspective, I am heavily leaning towards getting an interest-only mortgage on my next place, and just investing the difference. Of course that depends if I can get 30 yr fixed interest-only, or the more commonly available 10yr fixed.

Otherwise I'll lean towards either 30 or 40 yr, depending on the difference in the payment.

As for your actual question, I would be disinclined to take equity from the home to invest in anything that wasn't fixed at a rate that made it advantageous to leverage that debt.

So if your equities will give enough dividends to make that spread, then I'd consider it. Also if you can handle the mortgage payments even if you have 10-15 down years then it's worth considering if you assume your rate of return is going to be better than what you get from either debt paydown or investing in fixed income assets.
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 08:17 PM   #4
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

I consider the OP's question a good hint that at this time it would likely be a terrible idea.

ha
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 08:32 PM   #5
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
I consider the OP's question a good hint that at this time it would likely be a terrible idea.

ha
Gives the impression to me people are getting gutsy..
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 08:48 PM   #6
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Who knows what the future holds, but with the market nearing an all time high and home values declining, this might not be the optimal time to do this. But heck, nothing ventured....

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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 09:04 PM   #7
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
But heck, nothing ventured....
Nothing lost?
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 09:11 PM   #8
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Nothing lost?
... and look both ways before crossing.
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 09:18 PM   #9
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Well I'm positive that I would have no idea what to do.
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 09:28 PM   #10
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Listen to Darryl.
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 10:04 PM   #11
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

heloc is going to run 6% to 7%. Vanguard SP500 fund is 11.5% or so over the last 30 years. if you have a really long term perspective and willing to take on short term risk, go for it
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 11:09 PM   #12
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

It is not something that I would do but my suggestion is to take a look and see if you can simulate it with FIRECALC. Look at the resulting distribution with particular attention to the 10 or 20% worst case scenarios and think seriously how it would affect you if one of those scenarios became reality. If you are ok with that then go for it.

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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-03-2007, 11:14 PM   #13
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy
heloc is going to run 6% to 7%.
Doesn't this float?

ha
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-04-2007, 12:14 AM   #14
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Who knows what the future holds, but with the market nearing an all time high and home values declining, this might not be the optimal time to do this. But heck, nothing ventured....
This is just the harbinger of a market top.

We'll know it's here when people start maxing out their credit cards to by QQQs.
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-04-2007, 12:33 AM   #15
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Has anyone read the Black Swan ban Taleb? Not trying to hijack, but this sorta reminds me of over-optimism and over-confidence about which he speaks.
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-04-2007, 01:02 AM   #16
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

I got a bit worried the other day. DW and I were driving with the MIL in the back. Out of the blue she goes " Oh did you all hear about the stock market making a new record!" My MIL has no investments that we know of
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-04-2007, 01:32 AM   #17
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
This is just the harbinger of a market top.
Nords? Have you been channeled by Grantham?
Ha
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-04-2007, 06:43 AM   #18
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Quote:

heloc is going to run 6% to 7%.
Not any more .... you're looking at 8% (I've got one). Home equity lines track short term rates ... which have been rising.

A while back I saw some fixed lines running 6-7% but I believe thier gone.

Regardless (6,7,8%) using home equity to invest in stocks is like buying on margin. Tread carefully (I wouldn't do it).
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-04-2007, 06:49 AM   #19
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

Am I correct to believe that if you take equity out and don't invest it in capital improvements it is technically not deductible?
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds
Old 05-04-2007, 07:40 AM   #20
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Re: Cashing out home equity to invest in Mutual Funds

You have great cash flow, go with a straight investment. Just a bit each month directly into the funds you want.
If you take a HELOC you are essentially paying a 7% or 8% fee on top of any fees the fund charges you. Sounds like a great way to make money for everyone other than yourself
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