Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Same thing happened to us with Master card
Old 10-04-2009, 02:17 PM   #61
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5
Same thing happened to us with Master card

My Dh usually pays the bills so I rarely see them. He's retired and I'm still working so its worked fine for us. I'm the one with the master card, he has visa. All I do is check the statement for any unauthorized charges. We've gotten calls once in a while checking to see if the purchase was valid but other than that very little contact with them. We pay off the balance each month and go on our way. Last year I noticed a charge of over $12. I checked the last few months and there were these small charges of around $1. WTF. So I called them and basically was told that 5 months ago we were late with a payment and so were charged interest on the next 6 months. The only reason I noticed it was the previous month we had purchased appliances and went on our annual holiday. Needless to say I was not happy and asked where that was in their policy. On the back of the statement in tiny print of course. The kicker was that it was listed on every other statement, not even monthly. I know that we are a little lax BUT we are modest spenders and don't really look at the fine print. I thought we would be paying interest on that month not for the next 6. But those are their rules and I made sure that all my friends knew about them. I really pity people who do not have financial management skills and the increaslying predatory practices of the market place. There is an ugly side to competition and the free market. I knew I was in trouble when I had to listen to a "value added" infomercial for an electric toothbrush from my dental hygenist on a portable DVDas we were waiting for the freezing to take effect. She sheepishly told me that the "doctor" was encouraging all their staff to do so. I didn't even change dentists because I think it is the sign of the times.
__________________

__________________
Mary is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-04-2009, 02:35 PM   #62
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary View Post
There is an ugly side to competition and the free market.
I think it is just the opposite. This is the ugly side of a non-competitive, relatively closed market. In a freer, more competitive market, suppliers can't get away with this junk. Buyers will flock to their competitors. There are too few credit card companies to provide a real competitive market.


Yes, I know, I am "banging the drum" again

-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 03:19 PM   #63
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
bbbamI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas 'burb
Posts: 9,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Yes, I know, I am "banging the drum" again

-ERD50
Why not just bang a gong....


__________________
There's no need to complicate, our time is short..
bbbamI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 08:17 PM   #64
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
I am traveling to Oregon later this month, and put airline tickets on my debit Mastercard, for example. It functions just like a Mastercard in renting cars, too (as I discovered, much to my chagrin, when I accidently handed the rent-a-car girl my debit card instead of my government credit card when traveling for work a few years ago - - what a mess that was to untangle!).
Just curious: if you use a debit card to rent a car, do you get the insurance coverage that often comes with using a credit card? Any idea? I always turn down the rental agencies' abusive insurance option.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 09:12 PM   #65
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyounge1956 View Post
I think you just agreed with me. I don't have a B of A credit card, I have a Bank of America checking account with a linked Visa logo debit card, and I think of that as doing business with Bank of America, not with Visa. As you say, I am not borrowing money from Visa. I don't get a statement from them. AFAIK, the only thing I get from Visa is their name on my card. Also AFAIK, Bank of America—the savings and checking operation—doesn't encourage people to run into debt or do the other things I object to. But if you've got evidence that they do, it'll be bye-bye B of A, hello credit union or some other bank.
No we do not agree.... you seem to think that a BofA Visa card is doing business with Visa.. it is not... it is doing business of BofA... so in your example.. if you had a BofA CC, or a BofA debit card there is no difference in the company you are doing business with... Visa gets money from the bank for using their logo, from both the CC and debit card.. but that is all....

So you are doing business with that company you hate so much... and BofA does do predatory pricing...
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:48 AM   #66
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
Has anyone had a CC company send out a 1099 for rewards? Specifically, rewards >$300 annually?
__________________
eridanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 07:12 AM   #67
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus View Post
Has anyone had a CC company send out a 1099 for rewards? Specifically, rewards >$300 annually?
Interesting, but no. Tax free money - yeah!!!

In the vein of some of those posts trying to calculate the "investment return", I've decided to look at it as just a x% discount on the purchase (plus float invested). So you also would not get a 1099 for buying something priced at $1,000 on a 30% off sale and "saving" $300 either.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 09:22 AM   #68
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Interesting, but no. Tax free money - yeah!!!

In the vein of some of those posts trying to calculate the "investment return", I've decided to look at it as just a x% discount on the purchase (plus float invested). So you also would not get a 1099 for buying something priced at $1,000 on a 30% off sale and "saving" $300 either.

-ERD50
There you go! In that vein, while Franklin held that a penny saved is a penny earned, a dollar saved now is about the equivalent of $1.35 earned thanks to tax load, so saving trumps earning.

I'm investing heavily in birdseed - it's on sale by the hundred-weight - if I buy a ton I'll save enough to buy a budgie. (citation for that comedy routine?)
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 09:35 AM   #69
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus View Post
Has anyone had a CC company send out a 1099 for rewards? Specifically, rewards >$300 annually?
Great. Thanks a lot. Congress is scrounging around for every possible way to vacuum up more money and you had to bring this up. I expect you'll get a Medal of Freedom for this contribution.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 09:50 AM   #70
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus View Post
Has anyone had a CC company send out a 1099 for rewards? Specifically, rewards >$300 annually?
Boy, I sure hope not. We're over that after a home-improvement contractor let us juggle credit cards on his payments.

When I was doing 1099s for a non-profit few years ago the limit was "over $600". So even if rewards were considered taxable (instead of just a rebate) maybe that limit would apply.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 09:59 AM   #71
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,375
If the people on this forum were the average consumer (because no one ever carries a balance or would admit to it ), there probably would be no credit card companies and for sure the rewards programs would be cut way back. Unfortunately you need something with the magic MC, Amex, Visa hologram in your wallet today.

But, like W2R, we have also been using cash, online bill payment from our checking accound, debit cards, and God help us even those old fashioned checks! for bills and purchase. Like the pay off the house vs. mortgage question, perhaps it's just an emotional decision but the rewards programs and the float are absolutely meaningless to us from a financial standpoint so why bother. But I understand why people enjoy the game.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 10:00 AM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus View Post
Has anyone had a CC company send out a 1099 for rewards? Specifically, rewards >$300 annually?
Okay, this seems to be the answer (until Congress changes the rules to enhance revenue flow):

Quote:
The IRS states:
A rebate received from the party to whom the buyer directly or indirectly paid the purchase price for an item is a reduction in the purchase price of the item; it is not an accession to wealth and is not includible in the buyer's gross income. Rev. Rul. 76-96, 1976-1 C.B. 23; Rev. Rul. 84-41, 1984-1 C.B. 130.
No taxes due--it's a reduction in purchase price.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 10:09 AM   #73
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I think it is just the opposite. This is the ugly side of a non-competitive, relatively closed market. In a freer, more competitive market, suppliers can't get away with this junk. Buyers will flock to their competitors. There are too few credit card companies to provide a real competitive market.


Yes, I know, I am "banging the drum" again

-ERD50
Credit card companies are mostly unregulated as they base themselves in friendly states and can operate nationally. So it isn't a case of having an "unfriendly" regulatory environment.

Changing how interest is calculated is not likely to result in a significant number of new customers or the loss of a significant number of customers. So, competition may be close to irrelevant on this issue. Partly this is because any complicated service is very hard for people to evaluate. You are supposed to work 40 hours a week or more, raise your family, etc. and yet be a good and knowledgeable consumer of all things ranging from cell phone plans, credit cards, health care, and retirement plan options. People get paralyzed by the multitude of decisions and end up not reading the credit card fine print, don't read their mortgages, and they pick one option in a retirement plan and never look again.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 10:37 AM   #74
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,608
Quote:
So I called them and basically was told that 5 months ago we were late with a payment and so were charged interest on the next 6 months.
This kind of policy or treatment would either be re-credited to my account, or I would leave and take all of my banking related services elsewhere at the earliest opportunity. I doubt I'm all that big of a fish, but I do try to do my banking at the same bank with my credit card, so I like to think I have some leverage or at least can achieve some personal satisfaction if I have to vote with my feet. I have left a bank over poor customer service and nuisance fees. I have left a bank when they moved to double cycle billing and I couldn't get them to grandfather the single cycle billing I had signed up for. OTOH, I have gotten great service in disputing charges and in reversing odd bank "so you are still breathing" fees that show up from time to time. I sometimes think some of the fees are a game - the bank levies them knowing that a certain percentage of folks will just pay - but they are perfectly willing to reverse them for anyone who notices or complains. Ridiculous fee times percentage of folks who will pay makes for new profit center seems to be a way to generate new revenue for the bank that they are willing to experiment with.
__________________
growing_older is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 10:45 AM   #75
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
This kind of policy or treatment would either be re-credited to my account, or I would leave and take all of my banking related services elsewhere at the earliest opportunity. I doubt I'm all that big of a fish, but I do try to do my banking at the same bank with my credit card, so I like to think I have some leverage or at least can achieve some personal satisfaction if I have to vote with my feet. I have left a bank over poor customer service and nuisance fees. I have left a bank when they moved to double cycle billing and I couldn't get them to grandfather the single cycle billing I had signed up for. OTOH, I have gotten great service in disputing charges and in reversing odd bank "so you are still breathing" fees that show up from time to time. I sometimes think some of the fees are a game - the bank levies them knowing that a certain percentage of folks will just pay - but they are perfectly willing to reverse them for anyone who notices or complains. Ridiculous fee times percentage of folks who will pay makes for new profit center seems to be a way to generate new revenue for the bank that they are willing to experiment with.
But they may not even want to keep you. You probably pay off your card in full most of the time and you are crabby when they try to squeeze extras out of you.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 10:46 AM   #76
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
But, like W2R, we have also been using cash, online bill payment from our checking accound, debit cards, and God help us even those old fashioned checks! for bills and purchase. Like the pay off the house vs. mortgage question, perhaps it's just an emotional decision but the rewards programs and the float are absolutely meaningless to us from a financial standpoint so why bother. But I understand why people enjoy the game.
In most of these intractable "financial controversies" there is a tradeoff between financial security/certainty and potential for bigger gains doing something that makes people nervous.

In those situations, I think it would be nice if we could accept that different people have different personal "comfort zones" and place different values on the tradeoff between financial security and financial potential and leave it at that. Wishful thinking, I know...
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:34 AM   #77
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha View Post
Changing how interest is calculated is not likely to result in a significant number of new customers or the loss of a significant number of customers. So, competition may be close to irrelevant on this issue. Partly this is because any complicated service is very hard for people to evaluate. You are supposed to work 40 hours a week or more, raise your family, etc. and yet be a good and knowledgeable consumer of all things ranging from cell phone plans, credit cards, health care, and retirement plan options. People get paralyzed by the multitude of decisions and end up not reading the credit card fine print, don't read their mortgages, and they pick one option in a retirement plan and never look again.
It might seem that way, but I really do not think it is coincidence that in the areas where there really is competition, a lot of that fine print and confusion seems to magically disappear (the invisible hand?). Because no one will put up with it when there is a choice. And a competitor realizes that keeping things simple is attractive to customers.

At the grocery store, stuff is $X/pound or package. Pretty simple. Same at the gas pump, and I avoid the places with the fine print " with car wash purchase", because I have a choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
... perhaps it's just an emotional decision but the rewards programs and the float are absolutely meaningless to us from a financial standpoint so why bother.
How is it meaningless from a financial standpoint? The thousands of dollars of rewards I have received over the years is very real. I really do get those $. I don't understand "meaningless"?

The float is harder to quantify precisely, but there is no doubt "real" value to that too.


-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:42 AM   #78
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
How is it meaningless from a financial standpoint? The thousands of dollars of rewards I have received over the years is very real. I really do get those $. I don't understand "meaningless"?
Translation: TO THEM the amount of money involved is insignificant compared to the peace of mind and financial freedom they feel in not playing the game.

Again, this is just one of those things where different people put a different value on financial peace and freedom. Some people are willing to sacrifice more "potential return" in exchange for avoiding risks they don't *need* to take to meet their financial goals.

To me? I'll take the 2% cash back into my Schwab account. But I'm just one person and I'm not going to "project" my point of view on the sense of security (and what they consider unnecessary risk-taking) that others may have.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:45 AM   #79
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
In most of these intractable "financial controversies" there is a tradeoff between financial security/certainty and potential for bigger gains doing something that makes people nervous.

In those situations, I think it would be nice if we could accept that different people have different personal "comfort zones" and place different values on the tradeoff between financial security and financial potential and leave it at that. Wishful thinking, I know...
(my bolding)--completely agree, Ziggy; our decisions are all made based on our individual criteria and mindsets and best to respect that others' needs and wants often differ.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:21 PM   #80
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
It might seem that way, but I really do not think it is coincidence that in the areas where there really is competition, a lot of that fine print and confusion seems to magically disappear (the invisible hand?). Because no one will put up with it when there is a choice. And a competitor realizes that keeping things simple is attractive to customers.

At the grocery store, stuff is $X/pound or package. Pretty simple. Same at the gas pump, and I avoid the places with the fine print " with car wash purchase", because I have a choice.



-ERD50
Did the fine print disappear? No, it never appeared. The question is why. Part of the reason is the difference between goods and services. You can buy a cd player for cash, no fine print to speak of. Buy the extended warranty and you are buried in fine print.

I know next to nothing about economics but I do know that even Adam Smith did not believe that free markets by themselves would lead to the best results. Credit cards are a good example. There was no government interference with credit card companies to speak of and yet you arguably ended up with an oligopoly.

From the wiki on the "invisible hand:"
The theory of the Invisible Hand states that if each consumer is allowed to choose freely what to buy and each producer is allowed to choose freely what to sell and how to produce it, the market will settle on a product distribution and prices that are beneficial to all the individual members of a community, and hence to the community as a whole. "

You could argue that this theory did not didn't lead to the best results in the credit card example. Consumers were allowed to choose freely what credit card service they wanted and anyone could start up a credit card company. But we ended up with mostly meaningless choices and sharp practices. Or, you could say that it worked perfectly. We got exactly what we want. Easy credit for just about anyone but the price is paying through your nose if you make one mistake. And for the players, they get cash back.


Transparency is close to meaningless without simplicity. Arguably, credit card terms are totally transparent but they are not simple. So why doesn't someone come into the market offering simple terms? When people ignore the terms anyway I question the ability for them to compete. Especially with services, it is easy for time to bring more and more complexity as perceived problems arise and are addressed. The problem of a complicated world is not insignificant.
__________________

__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I feel like a deer caught in the crosshairs canadianteddy Other topics 22 02-27-2009 05:06 AM
Does Capital One's Fraud Department call you too often? jphripjah Other topics 11 08-23-2008 07:54 PM
Larry King caught in $15M insurance scam mickeyd FIRE and Money 5 11-03-2007 12:16 PM
hope no one's a microwave popcorn addict WM Health and Early Retirement 2 09-09-2007 03:20 PM
NET WORTH FOR ONE'S AGE gary Life after FIRE 68 02-02-2005 05:00 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:43 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.