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Old 08-09-2014, 12:27 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by explanade View Post
I heard the Square readers won't support PIN.
The example on their website shows a signature...

https://squareup.com/emv

It won't be as simple to use. I noticed this on the page "Micro USB port for easy charging". Their old device didn't require power since all it really did was turn the data on the strip into a chirping sound (notice it plugs into the headset/microphone port) which is sent to their servers for decoding. Clever really.

Their chip reader will require more smarts and so power - and recharging.
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Old 08-09-2014, 12:38 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by mpeirce View Post
I don't think most American chip cards are going down the PIN path, rather they are still requiring signatures. I know my three cards all do

This list of cards A Rundown of US Credit Cards With EMV Chip Technology | The Points Guy only shows a few CHIP and PIN cards, and only one that does't sport an annual fee and/or FTFs (PenFed which I don't think I can't get).

As best as I can figure (please correct me if I'm missing something) American bank cards favor chip and signature cards because of liability issues.

From The Dinosaur In Your Pocket - Stanford University Press Blog
PenFed is easy to join - are you a "member" of the Red Cross? Have you donated blood or donated cash to them? Voila- you qualify.
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Old 08-09-2014, 01:34 PM   #243
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PIN processing has lower transaction fees, which is supposedly whey retailers are pushing for it over signature.
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Old 08-09-2014, 01:51 PM   #244
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I don't think most American chip cards are going down the PIN path, rather they are still requiring signatures. I know my three cards all do
My chipped card is an hybrid. I suppose they need to do this until all retailers have readers that support chip and pin. In the USA if used at a swipe register, it requires a signature. Period. Overseas, I have to use it at a swipe register once, say at the hotel I stay in. After that it can be used as a chip and pin card. I am not sure why they have the requirement to first use it as a chip and signature card overseas. Maybe somebody more familiar with this stuff can comment.
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Old 08-09-2014, 02:05 PM   #245
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USAA MasterCard, and Andrews FCU Visa. Those were the ones I used in Europe, and worked great.

But I have also recently received a new PenFed Visa and a Citi Visa, both with chips. I would expect them to work just as well.

As mpeirce said, chips seem to finally be catching on here.
Apparently USAA has changed how they do their chip and PIN card, and some folks report it is no longer a "true" chip and PIN and doesn't work the same way, implying it sometimes doesn't work with PIN at all. This may be no more that it is now signature priority rather than PIN, but there is the recent implication that it doesn't work in some automated machines. Sorry I don't have a link.

Good to know the Andrews card works well. If I'm not happy about how my PenFed VISA chip and pin (signature priority) card works in Europe this next trip, I'll try to get an Andrews card. USAA is not an option for us.
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Old 08-09-2014, 02:07 PM   #246
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Actually, I'm seeing these Square devices attached either to a cell phone or tablet at small vendors, like independent contractors or food trucks.

-- Rita
Right - those are swipe readers FWIW. What was brought to me in WA in 2011 was a full bore terminal just like they use in Europe, except that we did swipe the card.
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Old 08-09-2014, 02:09 PM   #247
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My chipped card is an hybrid. I suppose they need to do this until all retailers have readers that support chip and pin. In the USA if used at a swipe register, it requires a signature. Period. Overseas, I have to use it at a swipe register once, say at the hotel I stay in. After that it can be used as a chip and pin card. I am not sure why they have the requirement to first use it as a chip and signature card overseas. Maybe somebody more familiar with this stuff can comment.
I have read this. And I have also read that this is a myth. I don't know what to do! That just seems so odd.
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Old 08-09-2014, 02:10 PM   #248
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I just got a Barclays Arrival Plus card.

It lets you set a PIN on the website. Then you have to go to a chip and signature terminal which would communicate online and supposedly downloads your PIN.

Well I'm going to France next month. The real test will be to use the PIN part at one of the gas stations, because below a certain amount, it won't prompt for a PIN or signature at many unattended points of sales. Say train tickets or highway toll booths.

But if you're charging more than 50€ in gas at one of those stations which are unattended, that will be the real test. In past trips, I had to look around sometimes to find a station which had attendants.
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:15 PM   #249
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Apparently USAA has changed how they do their chip and PIN card, and some folks report it is no longer a "true" chip and PIN and doesn't work the same way, implying it sometimes doesn't work with PIN at all. This may be no more that it is now signature priority rather than PIN, but there is the recent implication that it doesn't work in some automated machines. Sorry I don't have a link.

Good to know the Andrews card works well. If I'm not happy about how my PenFed VISA chip and pin (signature priority) card works in Europe this next trip, I'll try to get an Andrews card. USAA is not an option for us.
Sounds to me as if your informants were either confused or didn't understand.

I just got that MasterCard last September (I called USAA and asked for one with a chip). It worked flawlessly in unattended kiosks. An advantage is that it also worked as pure chip/pin in restaurants, where the Andrews card defaulted to chip/signature. A disadvantage is that there were foreign transaction fees.

The Andrews Visa card also worked flawlessly in unattended kiosks. It also had the advantage of no foreign transaction fees. I'm looking forward to my next trip to check out my new chipped PenFed Visa.
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:22 PM   #250
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I just got a Barclays Arrival Plus card.

It lets you set a PIN on the website. Then you have to go to a chip and signature terminal which would communicate online and supposedly downloads your PIN.

Well I'm going to France next month.
Download the pin?!?! Well, I guess that makes sense. It would explain the need to first use it at a chip and signature business.

Please update us on how the card worked once you return from you trip. Thanks.
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:47 PM   #251
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Sounds to me as if your informants were either confused or didn't understand.

I just got that MasterCard last September (I called USAA and asked for one with a chip). It worked flawlessly in unattended kiosks. An advantage is that it also worked as pure chip/pin in restaurants, where the Andrews card defaulted to chip/signature. A disadvantage is that there were foreign transaction fees.

The Andrews Visa card also worked flawlessly in unattended kiosks. It also had the advantage of no foreign transaction fees. I'm looking forward to my next trip to check out my new chipped PenFed Visa.
The story is that last year's USAA issued cards, like yours, were "true" chip and PIN, but this year's issued cards switched to signature priority and don't work the same, and so people have run into problems.
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:51 PM   #252
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Yes, I love the pay at the table device they use in European restaurants (or you swing by the register on your way out and use a device up on the counter).

There is nothing stopping them from doing this in the US with swipe cards. I once ate at a restaurant in a smaller city in Washington State in 2011, and they brought a device to the table for me to swipe my card. And that was the only time I ever had that happen. It sure hasn't caught on in the US, has it?
Not precisely what you are talking about, but swipe to pay at the table (and do a few other things) is available some places in the US. It is currently available.

Ziosk - Industry leading tabletop ordering, entertainment and payment solutions
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:52 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by explanade View Post
I just got a Barclays Arrival Plus card.

It lets you set a PIN on the website. Then you have to go to a chip and signature terminal which would communicate online and supposedly downloads your PIN.

Well I'm going to France next month. The real test will be to use the PIN part at one of the gas stations, because below a certain amount, it won't prompt for a PIN or signature at many unattended points of sales. Say train tickets or highway toll booths.

But if you're charging more than 50€ in gas at one of those stations which are unattended, that will be the real test. In past trips, I had to look around sometimes to find a station which had attendants.
Wow, the plot thickens. I guess I'll try to use my PenFed card at a chip reading signature terminal first. My doctor's office has one. No such instructions from PenFed.

Your challenge in France maybe they don't like cards issued from banks outside of selected EU countries at the unmanned kiosks.
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:54 PM   #254
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Not precisely what you are talking about, but swipe to pay at the table (and do a few other things) is available some places in the US. It is currently available.

Ziosk - Industry leading tabletop ordering, entertainment and payment solutions
Yes, it is currently available, and has been since at least 2011, but extremely few restaurants use it. That's what I mean by "it hasn't caught on".
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:59 PM   #255
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I just applied for BoA travel rewards card. It has no foreign transaction fees which I need for a trip to UK this fall. Not sure if it has a chip - how can I tell?



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Old 08-11-2014, 11:47 PM   #256
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I just applied for BoA travel rewards card. It has no foreign transaction fees which I need for a trip to UK this fall. Not sure if it has a chip - how can I tell?
I have attached a screenshot of a chip and PIN card from a bank ad. Underneath the green TD symbol is a silvery square with rounded corners. This is the chip, the electronic circuit where the information resides.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:40 AM   #257
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I just applied for BoA travel rewards card. It has no foreign transaction fees which I need for a trip to UK this fall. Not sure if it has a chip - how can I tell?



Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk HD
I received this card as a chip and signature card. It may come that way automatically. I have used it in Europe. The chip is obvious.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:08 AM   #258
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I have attached a screenshot of a chip and PIN card from a bank ad. Underneath the green TD symbol is a silvery square with rounded corners. This is the chip, the electronic circuit where the information resides.
And the little words Paypass also means there is an embedded RFID chip at the other end, enabling the card to be used by swiping it over a payment reader. No PIN, no signature!
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:29 AM   #259
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And the little words Paypass also means there is an embedded RFID chip at the other end, enabling the card to be used by swiping it over a payment reader. No PIN, no signature!
That is not a good thing as far as I am concerned. Even though they say the limit is $50.

http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/product...ip-paywave.jsp
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:38 AM   #260
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My DH sent me a message today from Siberia, about 200 miles from Irkusk. The Schwab debit card (no chip) has been declined at a couple of ATMs there, so I called and turns out, the travel notice was lifted after 30 days. Once it was reset, I think he should have no further troubles.

His Chase Sapphire (chip, no pin) was working in Azerbaijan (thanks, Ed!) and in Kazakhstan, but was declined at a number of Russian gas stations in the past few days. I called Chase and they said it was probably a merchant problem. Great, except there is really only one gas station operator in that part of the world so I just told him he needed to start busking pretty soon to earn his keep!

Interestingly, they will probably be stopping at the place where my lovely outhouse photo avatar was taken last summer, along the shores of Lake Baikal, the largest freshwater lake in the world. It looks WAY more picturesque from the outside!
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