Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[explanade]

Did you try to buy train tickets on the kiosks with them?

 

[audreyh1]

Been using my Chase no FX chipped CC in Amsterdam and Brugges without any problems, even at coffee shops and corner stores. Paid cash in the taxis but did not ask about cards.

Of course. I use my BofA chip and signature card all the time in Amsterdam.

But go to a train or metro/tram ticket machine and you need chip and PIN.

 

[Chuckanut]

Of course. I use my BofA chip and signature card all the time in Amsterdam.

But go to a train or metro/tram ticket machine and you need chip and PIN.

No! No! No!

You don't understand.

The letter I received with a recent card makes it quite clear that a chip and signature card is better than a chip and pin card because you don't have to remember a pin. The issuing bank told me this so it must be true. Let those behind the curve Europeans suffer with chip and pin, while we Americans have the more advanced chip and signature cards. After all, if you can't trust your banker, who can you trust?

 

[rodi]

I was unable to use my Schwab ATM (visa logo) card at the kiosk to to buy bus passes outside Amsterdam's train station. I was able to use my PenFed chip/pin card at the same vending kiosk. It prompted for the pin.

Same with the TV Tower admission in Berlin. The line to get tickets was 50 people long - and people (American's) kept leaving the vending machine saying it didn't work. It worked just fine with my chip and pin PenFed card. (And I didn't have to wait in line.)

I heard the line about chip and signature being "more secure" from a lady at the produce store yesterday - she heard it from "someone".

 

[Alan]

We've been living in the UK this last few weeks and been pleasantly surprised at how many places we shop have Apple Pay. I have a Penfed chip card with no foreign transaction fees and would normally have to sign when making purchases but not when using it through Apple Pay. Off to Belgium in a few weeks but I doubt we can be so lucky with lots of Apple Pay opportunities.

 

[explanade]

Yeah it's odd. New Zealand has a lot of contactless terminals, which just worked with Apple Pay.

Norway, didn't see any contactless terminals.

 

[audreyh1]

I was unable to use my Schwab ATM (visa logo) card at the kiosk to to buy bus passes outside Amsterdam's train station. I was able to use my PenFed chip/pin card at the same vending kiosk. It prompted for the pin.

Same with the TV Tower admission in Berlin. The line to get tickets was 50 people long - and people (American's) kept leaving the vending machine saying it didn't work. It worked just fine with my chip and pin PenFed card. (And I didn't have to wait in line.)

I heard the line about chip and signature being "more secure" from a lady at the produce store yesterday - she heard it from "someone".

This is really great to know! I'll just go straight to my PenFed card in Holland.

The PenFed card has an "offline PIN" which I think means the PIN is embedded in the chip on the card. This can be an advantage because not all ticket machines can go online for PIN verification.

On the other hand, some folks have reported that their US issued credit card with PIN won't work in an SNCF ticket machine, but that their US issued ATM/debit card did.

I'll try all sorts of things on our next trip!

 

[audreyh1]

We've been living in the UK this last few weeks and been pleasantly surprised at how many places we shop have Apple Pay. I have a Penfed chip card with no foreign transaction fees and would normally have to sign when making purchases but not when using it through Apple Pay. Off to Belgium in a few weeks but I doubt we can be so lucky with lots of Apple Pay opportunities.

Oh great! I'm set up on Apple Pay with all my travel credit cards!!

 

[UpAnchor]

I called the Fidelity Cash Management Account Check Card number today. They now issue ATM/debit cards with chips, so I asked to be sent new cards. Yes!

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[kcowan]

Oh great! I'm set up on Apple Pay with all my travel credit cards!!

The only problem is that some terminals have a PIN shield which makes it hard to reach the RFID reader with your iPhone.

 

[brett]

We have used our chip and pin cards (Chase Canada) in self serve rail/transit terminals in Italy, UK, France with no issue whatsoever. Probably others that I cannot remember.

We have used the same card in ATM's throughout Europe, Africa, Americas, SE Asia, and Australia/NZ. Never a problem or a hiccup.

 

[Meadbh]

We have used our chip and pin cards (Chase Canada) in self serve rail/transit terminals in Italy, UK, France with no issue whatsoever. Probably others that I cannot remember.

We have used the same card in ATM's throughout Europe, Africa, Americas, SE Asia, and Australia/NZ. Never a problem or a hiccup.

My experience has been similarly seamless, but the problems arise when the cards originate from the US.

 

[explanade]

It's NFC and you would think they designed it so that it's within NFC range.

 

[audreyh1]

We have used our chip and pin cards (Chase Canada) in self serve rail/transit terminals in Italy, UK, France with no issue whatsoever. Probably others that I cannot remember.

We have used the same card in ATM's throughout Europe, Africa, Americas, SE Asia, and Australia/NZ. Never a problem or a hiccup.

Yes, Canadian cards work great in Europe. US issued cards - not seamless. Most US issued cards with chips do not have PIN capability (they are chip and signature only). We have to go through a lot of trouble to get a chip and PIN card (only issued by a few credit unions and Barclays), and even then they default to chip and signature unless you are at an unattended kiosk. So in Europe you're constantly having to sign a receipt rather than entering a PIN.

 

[audreyh1]

The only problem is that some terminals have a PIN shield which makes it hard to reach the RFID reader with your iPhone.

Interesting, I can't quite visualize this. You have to touch something that you can get a hand in but not an iPhone?

 

[kcowan]

Doesn't happen very often. Mostly convenience stores that lack room on the counter. But pulling a card out once in ten times is not a problem as long as you carry it as backup. The the takeout coffee place in Brugges was a daily occurrence!

 

[audreyh1]

Doesn't happen very often. Mostly convenience stores that lack room on the counter. But pulling a card out once in ten times is not a problem as long as you carry it as backup. The the takeout coffee place in Brugges was a daily occurrence!

Oh, I see, LOL! I generally use cash for sub €20 expenses in Europe.

Lots of cheap breakfast places in Brugges.

 

[kcowan]

We have found only one coffee place that takes cash only. It is by the market square in Cologne. None of the supermarkets take RFID. That will limit Apple Pay.

 

[explanade]

NFC, or contactless.

 

[audreyh1]

NFC, or contactless.

He was talking about Apple Pay I think so it should be NFC.

I don't know why a European coffee shop would have a pay terminal out of reach unless they wanted their customers to pay cash.

 

[explanade]

All contactless is NFC. RFID is cheap transmitters for tracking shipments and stuff. Not used for mobile transactions. Too long a range for people to be comfortable with security.

 

[kcowan]

I don't know why a European coffee shop would have a pay terminal out of reach unless they wanted their customers to pay cash.

It is easily within reach of a card. Just not enough room for a phone. Probably because Apple Pay has very little presence here (along with NFC).

 

[audreyh1]

OK! Some potentially good news for using automated kiosks in Europe:

US banks are now issuing debit/ATM cards with chips. People are reporting that they are able to use their new chip enabled debit/ATM cards in ticket machines that rejected their US-issued chip and PIN credit cards. It makes sense - the ticket machine would see that as a direct bank transaction, just like the ATM machine does. ATM machines in Europe take US issued cards - why not automated machines? Answer - until now, US issued debit/ATM cards lacked the chip which was required in automated ticket machines. See reply 16 in https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTop...a_chip_and_pin_cards-Paris_Ile_de_France.html

Our Charles Schwab debit VISA has a chip. So I will try using it in a transportation ticket machine if my PenFed VISA chip and PIN card is rejected as an invalid card. This may solve a major issue for me.

I notice DH's newly issued BofA debit VISA has a chip. Unfortunately BofA charges 3% on foreign charges, but at least that pesky $5.00 ATM withdrawal fee goes away. Still - now it's available as a backup.

Now - if I could get Fidelity to reissue us debit/ATM cards with a chip. That would be nice.

So for all of you out there that have an ATM/debit VISA card with a chip, you may be able to use it overseas in automated kiosks. Make sure you have a 4 digit PIN.

New ATM Debit card with chip to the rescue in Europe!

For some reason (these things are so fickle), the NS (Netherlands train/metro) kiosk at Schiphol didn't like my PenFed VISA with chip and PIN. Didn't even give me a chance to use my PIN or anything - just said "invalid card" immediately after inserting it - tried reinserting a few times. It could easily just have been that particular machine.

Then I tried my BofA travel rewards VISA. It accepted the card as valid, but wanted a PIN. This card is chip and signature, so I only have a cash advance PIN for it, and I didn't remember the PIN at the time. It might have worked. But interesting that it saw it as a valid card - I'll keep my PIN handy for it now, just in case.

Finally I tried my Fidelity Cash Management ATM/Debit VISA card (aka the Fidelity VISA Gold Check Card)*. Worked like a champ! Recognized card, accepted debit PIN, and topped off my metro card. Excellent!

Fortunately, a couple of months ago I read some folks mention that they had luck with their chipped ATM/Debit cards in the France train machines that would not accept their US-issued credit cards (see my quoted post above). So I called Fidelity and asked them if a chipped version of their Fidelity VISA Gold Check Card was available, and they happily sent us the new versions with chips. So glad I had it!

I've used the PenFed card with PIN before OK in Europe, even though it has been a while. I'll be trying it again somewhere I'm sure.

This is typical in Europe - you go up to a kiosk, and you have to be armed with a set of cards to try because you never know which one will work! Hopefully you've selected English on the kiosk display, too, as you navigate through all the attempts. I won't be surprised if the above scenario repeats several times during our current trip and that different cards are accepted by different machines with no rhyme or reason for it.

* The Fidelity Cash Management debit VISA card supposedly has 0% foreign transaction fee for ATM withdrawals, and 1% for debit card purchases. It's not clear that we were charged the 1% for our debit usage at the kiosk based on the dollar amount that has been deducted from our account when I checked online. The debit charge is still processing, so we'll see.

 

[explanade]

I had the same problem a couple of years ago with the NS kiosk at AMS airport. I tried the Barclay's Arrival Plus, which I had then and it didn't work, even though it worked at kiosks on French autoroute toll booths and other unattended places.

One theory is that they only take European credit cards or credit cards issued in the Netherlands and perhaps neighboring countries. I've heard of some cell phone carriers in Europe also only taking credit cards from EU banks, had nothing to do with the chip.

At Centraal Station in Amsterdam, I was able to use one of my cards to purchase a tourist pass at one of the kiosk underneath the station.

The other thing is when I went to Belgium last year, the only card that I could use at the train kiosks was the First Tech World MasterCard, which is a true chip and pin with offline capabilities.

I believe the Barclays Arrival Plus was online meaning I was able to set the PIN by initializing at a Walmart. I forget the exact procedure but I set a PIN whereas with the First Tech, I haven't been able to set the PIN, though I might be able to in their ATMs or their branches.

Ultimately though, I'd rather they support Apple Pay and other NFC mobile wallets. The London Underground does now so you don't have to get their Oyster cards any more, supposedly.

 

[audreyh1]

I had the same problem a couple of years ago with the NS kiosk at AMS airport. I tried the Barclay's Arrival Plus, which I had then and it didn't work, even though it worked at kiosks on French autoroute toll booths and other unattended places.

One theory is that they only take European credit cards or credit cards issued in the Netherlands and perhaps neighboring countries. I've heard of some cell phone carriers in Europe also only taking credit cards from EU banks, had nothing to do with the chip.

At Centraal Station in Amsterdam, I was able to use one of my cards to purchase a tourist pass at one of the kiosk underneath the station.

The other thing is when I went to Belgium last year, the only card that I could use at the train kiosks was the First Tech World MasterCard, which is a true chip and pin with offline capabilities.

I believe the Barclays Arrival Plus was online meaning I was able to set the PIN by initializing at a Walmart. I forget the exact procedure but I set a PIN whereas with the First Tech, I haven't been able to set the PIN, though I might be able to in their ATMs or their branches.

Ultimately though, I'd rather they support Apple Pay and other NFC mobile wallets. The London Underground does now so you don't have to get their Oyster cards any more, supposedly.

Most of my cards are set up for Apple Pay so I'd love to use that in Europe as it's more secure than sticking a card in a machine.

I had read reports that the PenFed Card worked fine in the Amsterdam Centraal Station, so I expected it to work at the airport station. Especially since it is a true chip and PIN with offline capability (preassigned PIN). Interesting that you had the same experience at Schiphol.

I'm just so glad to have the debit card with chip now as a backup.