Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[2017ish]

A card I picked up playing mileage awards games this year--Barclay's AA Aviator. Arrived yesterday as replacement for the USAir card. Was able to select my own PIN online. Not a great card, but decent enough. If one were planning to travel to places with unmanned Kiosks, it might be worth looking at.

Unfortunately, may not be available to anyone who didn't have USAir card already. The Many Flavors of Barclaycard AAdvantage Aviator

[braumeister]

Interesting piece in the WSJ the other day. The gist of it is in the first few paragraphs:

Quote:

Bank Bets You Can Remember Another PIN A regional bank in upstate New York is challenging the industry belief that American credit-card users can’t deal with one more thing to remember. First Niagara Financial Group Inc. MMFNFGMM said on Wednesday that it is rolling out new chip-enabled credit and debit cards that require customers to enter a personal identification number instead of a signature. That bucks the industry trend, in which the vast majority of banks and others issuing new chip cards have chosen the signature option, even though merchants say that PINs are more secure. Chip and PIN cards are used in most other countries, but U.S. bank executives have said they don’t think Americans want to be burdened at the checkout line with having to remember a new four-digit code. First Niagara executives decided to go with the PIN method because they believe it is better for customers, said Justin Bigham, head of consumer product management at the Buffalo, N.Y. bank.

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister Interesting piece in the WSJ the other day. The gist of it is in the first few paragraphs:

If I got to choose my pin I would not mind....

Most card assign a pin and you live with it... but then again I have not tried to change one in over a decade so it might be different now....

[Corporateburnout]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud If I got to choose my pin I would not mind.... Most card assign a pin and you live with it... but then again I have not tried to change one in over a decade so it might be different now....

I changed my bank assigned debit card pin on a couple of occasions over the phone with no operator involved.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud If I got to choose my pin I would not mind.... Most card assign a pin and you live with it... but then again I have not tried to change one in over a decade so it might be different now....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporateburnout I changed my bank assigned debit card pin on a couple of occasions over the phone with no operator involved.

In the UK you can take your C&P card to certain ATMs and change it yourself.

Last month I received a new magnetic strip ATM/Debit card from my bank and when I called to authorize it I was told that it was now authorized and the first time I used it at any ATM then the 4 digits I entered would be my new PIN. I rushed out and set my new PIN. First time this has been an option for me.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister Interesting piece in the WSJ the other day. The gist of it is in the first few paragraphs:

I always figured those executives forgot Americans had been using debit cards for a loooong time.

[meierlde]

Interesting that below some amount american express cards don't even require a signature just stick the card in (at least at Wal-Mart). Actually if you think about it the costs for collection may be greater that the potential loss otherwise.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde Interesting that below some amount american express cards don't even require a signature just stick the card in (at least at Wal-Mart). Actually if you think about it the costs for collection may be greater that the potential loss otherwise.

Most of my credit cards have some amount that doesn't require signature. The amount seems to depend on the store and the card. Some places like Costco it's quite high. Others it may be $50.

[Lsbcal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister Interesting piece in the WSJ the other day. The gist of it is in the first few paragraphs:

Why don't those bank executives want to give their customers the option? Could there be another motive here? I don't know what that would be though but I'm suspicious.

[sengsational]

Follow the money...they probably somehow see profits slipping away with C&P.

[Bamaman]

As of 10/1/2015, all bank credit cards are supposed to furnish you with a PIN and Chip card. I just received mine the other day.

If a merchant doesn't have his computer hardware setup to handle P&C, any fraud conducted will be his responsibility. Target, Walmart and a few have it setup. I was in Aldi's today, and they have the hardware but are not going to be using the P&C software until after 1/1/2016.

If a bank doesn't issue a C&P credit card by 10/1/2015, it's 100% their responsibility.

We just received from Europe without our C&P card. No problem was experienced, as we just signed the receipt with a pen

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamaman As of 10/1/2015, all bank credit cards are supposed to furnish you with a PIN and Chip card.

I think you are correct on the chip, but not the pin...

Quote:

"There aren't going to be many issuers requiring a PIN," she says. "A vast majority will be issuing chip-and-signature cards, which aren't all that different from how credit cards work now."

8 FAQs about EMV credit cards

[gauss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamaman As of 10/1/2015, all bank credit cards are supposed to furnish you with a PIN and Chip card. I just received mine the other day. If a merchant doesn't have his computer hardware setup to handle P&C, any fraud conducted will be his responsibility. Target, Walmart and a few have it setup. I was in Aldi's today, and they have the hardware but are not going to be using the P&C software until after 1/1/2016. If a bank doesn't issue a C&P credit card by 10/1/2015, it's 100% their responsibility. We just received from Europe without our C&P card. No problem was experienced, as we just signed the receipt with a pen

My understanding of the post 10/1/15 "liability shift" is that at least for retail face to face transactions, the liability will lie with the entity that has the lower technology (the merchant or the card issuing bank) when a fraud occurs. If there is a tie, then the old rules would apply.

-gauss

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengsational Follow the money...they probably somehow see profits slipping away with C&P.

+1

Inconvenienced by an American chip and signature card while traveling out of the country? The big mega banks have a simple answer. We don't care. We don't have to.

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamaman As of 10/1/2015, all bank credit cards are supposed to furnish you with a PIN and Chip card. I just received mine the other day.

The only chipped card I have is one I recently got. The rest of my credit cards have not be updated with a chip as of today. Should I charge my bank a late fee?

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsbcal Why don't those bank executives want to give their customers the option? Could there be another motive here? I don't know what that would be though but I'm suspicious.

The real reason - with the new cards they get paid more for processing signature transactions than PIN transactions.

All the other reasons they claim are baloney.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamaman As of 10/1/2015, all bank credit cards are supposed to furnish you with a PIN and Chip card. I just received mine the other day. If a merchant doesn't have his computer hardware setup to handle P&C, any fraud conducted will be his responsibility. Target, Walmart and a few have it setup. I was in Aldi's today, and they have the hardware but are not going to be using the P&C software until after 1/1/2016. If a bank doesn't issue a C&P credit card by 10/1/2015, it's 100% their responsibility. We just received from Europe without our C&P card. No problem was experienced, as we just signed the receipt with a pen

Just chips - not PINs, and most are issuing chip and signature cards.

Those new terminals will read the chip - but you still end up signing.

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 Just chips - not PINs, and most are issuing chip and signature cards. Those new terminals will read the chip - but you still end up signing.

I visited a Target in Pittsburgh this week. They were set up to read my Canadian Chip & Pin card without a signature. The clerk said they had installed the technology a month ago.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh I visited a Target in Pittsburgh this week. They were set up to read my Canadian Chip & Pin card without a signature. The clerk said they had installed the technology a month ago.

If you are using a U.S. issued chip card which have signature priority even for those few issued with PIN, you'll still end up signing. It's just the way US issuers are operating these days.

And most U.S. issued chip cards are chip and signature so you wouldn't have a PIN to use anyway.

[gauss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh I visited a Target in Pittsburgh this week. They were set up to read my Canadian Chip & Pin card without a signature. The clerk said they had installed the technology a month ago.

Both Target and Home Depot, at least around here, seem to be fully up and running WRT accepting EMV/chip cards. Coincidence?

-gauss