Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-06-2015, 07:30 AM   #481
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 15,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by gauss View Post
Both Target and Home Depot, at least around here, seem to be fully up and running WRT accepting EMV/chip cards. Coincidence?

-gauss
Nope.

Walmart is another one - at least they have the terminals.

They've been fighting the credit card companies over signature transactions (swipe fees) - fighting for PIN transactions which are cheaper, that is. Don't know how that fight is going.

Quote:
The new "chip & signature" program is barely an improvement on security and fraud, said Mike Cook, Wal-Mart's assistant treasurer and a senior vice president, at this week's Electronic Transaction Association's Transact conference in San Francisco. Cook said Wal-Mart would have preferred a "chip and PIN" system that Europe and Africa have, since PINs would protect cards from being stolen.

"The fact that we didn't go to PIN is such a joke," Cook told CNNMoney. Cook said signatures on checks were sufficient 100 years ago, but they're outdated today. PINs on debit cards were a major improvement to stop thieves decades ago. They'd do the same for credit cards -- which is why banks should use them for all cards.

This comes from a company that's been adamant about adopting technology to stop fraud. Wal-Mart (WMT) has been ahead of the curve -- more so than any other U.S. retailer. It started installing EMV-capable payment terminals at its stores eight years ago, and they're already active today. That means you can dip a chip-enabled card there, a safer way to pay than swiping.

Retailers in general have been critical of the U.S. banking industry's decision to avoid PINs on credit cards, calling it a half-step in the right direction.
The United Kingdom, for example, implemented chip-and-PIN and saw a dramatic decrease in fraud stemming from counterfeit cards and stolen cards. By using chips alone, the American upgrade would only cut down on counterfeiting.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/03/tech...t-credit-card/

But I'm not sure how much having a chip with or without PIN protects you from internet fraud anyway. That is still a big hole - credit card not present transactions. Pretty much all of fraudulent charges using my card numbers have been of this type, and usually from some catalog business.
__________________

__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-06-2015, 08:59 AM   #482
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
mpeirce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Columbus area
Posts: 1,527
> This comes from a company that's been adamant about adopting technology to stop fraud.

I'll believe Walmart cares most about security when they start accepting Apple Pay.

Their focus on reducing costs is fine, just don't lie and say that improving security is driving all their actions.
__________________

__________________
mpeirce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 09:33 AM   #483
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 6,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
If you are using a U.S. issued chip card which have signature priority even for those few issued with PIN, you'll still end up signing. It's just the way US issuers are operating these days.

And most U.S. issued chip cards are chip and signature so you wouldn't have a PIN to use anyway.
The one new card I have is the only one that has a chip in it. I called the CC company to find out what my pin is. Their response: "You don't need a pin all you have to do is sign. This spares you from having to remember a pin."

I asked what happens at automated sites such as toll booths, ticket dispensers etc, that one often finds in Europe, and I was told they have to provide an alternative. Right. Next time I am in Germany or France and the unmanned bus/rail station ticket machine does not like my card, I will tell the machine it has to accept it.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 09:46 AM   #484
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,289
There is definitely a difference. I got gas for my rental and in Italy, stations are often unattended, especially in the early afternoon.

The kiosk took my Chip and PIN card while rejecting my BofA Visa which is signature but is suppose to have online PIN support for use with the cash advance PIn.

Apparently the gas station kiosk wasn't online.
__________________
explanade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 10:06 AM   #485
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 6,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post
There is definitely a difference. I got gas for my rental and in Italy, stations are often unattended, especially in the early afternoon.

The kiosk took my Chip and PIN card while rejecting my BofA Visa which is signature but is suppose to have online PIN support for use with the cash advance PIn.

Apparently the gas station kiosk wasn't online.
According to my CC company, they MUST have an alternative way for you to use your card at the kiosk. I hope you told the kiosk it is in violation of its agreement and got it to do its duty.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 10:21 AM   #486
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 20,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
Nope.

Walmart is another one - at least they have the terminals.
Well before we went on vacation in April this year I went into our local Walmart and swiped my CHIP and Signature card as usual and the clerk said sorry, you have one of those new CHIP cards so you'll have to insert it in the slot and follow the instructions. I was pleasantly surprised.

Both my Penfed and Amex and CHIP cards still have the magnetic stripe for use in most of the machines so are still just as vulnerable to card skimmers. In 2013 this happened to me and a clone was made of my card and used over 3 days in walk-in stores including Target to make purchases, before I spotted the transactions and had it cancelled. We were travelling in Europe at the time away from wifi otherwise I'd have spotted it sooner.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 10:24 AM   #487
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 15,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpeirce View Post
> This comes from a company that's been adamant about adopting technology to stop fraud.

I'll believe Walmart cares most about security when they start accepting Apple Pay.

Their focus on reducing costs is fine, just don't lie and say that improving security is driving all their actions.
Yeah, they care even more about swipe fees. Apparently ApplePay is expensive compared to others.
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 10:33 AM   #488
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,289
Wal Mart is pushing Current C, which would draw money from your bank account, not a credit card. But other big retail chains involved with CurrentC initially are bailing, like Best Buy, which is going to support Apple Pay.
__________________
explanade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 11:15 AM   #489
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
mpeirce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Columbus area
Posts: 1,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
Apparently ApplePay is expensive compared to others.
Apple Pay doesn't cost merchants anything different from the customer using the credit card directly.

Apple Pay FAQ

Of course CurrentC, being promoted by Walmart, isn't really a credit card system. They reach in and take money from your bank account directly. So no credit payments from merchant to Visa/MC/etc, just the Automatic Clearing House fees, which are lower.
__________________
mpeirce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 11:59 AM   #490
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 15,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpeirce View Post
Apple Pay doesn't cost merchants anything different from the customer using the credit card directly.

Apple Pay FAQ

Of course CurrentC, being promoted by Walmart, isn't really a credit card system. They reach in and take money from your bank account directly. So no credit payments from merchant to Visa/MC/etc, just the Automatic Clearing House fees, which are lower.
I see. The article I read didn't make that clear.

A debit alternative to Apple Pay isn't going to be acceptable to many customers.
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 12:23 PM   #491
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Gotadimple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
The only chipped card I have is one I recently got. The rest of my credit cards have not be updated with a chip as of today. Should I charge my bank a late fee?
Rots O Ruck with that one!
__________________
Only got A dimple, would have preferred 2!
Gotadimple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 12:28 PM   #492
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Gotadimple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by gauss View Post
Both Target and Home Depot, at least around here, seem to be fully up and running WRT accepting EMV/chip cards. Coincidence?

-gauss
And Target is reissuing their credit cards to Chip & Pin. You must select a PIN online when you get the card.

Not sure chip and pin would have stopped a breach at the terminals, which is what both Home Depot and Target experienced. But at least it makes it more difficult for those who like to steal card numbers.

Rita
__________________
Only got A dimple, would have preferred 2!
Gotadimple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 01:13 PM   #493
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I asked what happens at automated sites such as toll booths, ticket dispensers etc, that one often finds in Europe, and I was told they have to provide an alternative. Right. Next time I am in Germany or France and the unmanned bus/rail station ticket machine does not like my card, I will tell the machine it has to accept it.
I hope you're kidding, but in case it actually bothers you, it is possible to get a true chip & PIN card here in the US. I got one from Andrews FCU more than three years ago, and it worked great with the PIN in many unattended kiosks in Europe. The problem you run into (discussed at length here) is that some European companies (the Belgian and German train systems for example) simply don't accept credit cards issued outside the EU even if they are chip & PIN.
__________________
braumeister is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 02:01 PM   #494
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 15,621
Yes he's being very facetious.
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 07:17 PM   #495
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
gauss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotadimple View Post
And Target is reissuing their credit cards to Chip & Pin. You must select a PIN online when you get the card.

Not sure chip and pin would have stopped a breach at the terminals, which is what both Home Depot and Target experienced. But at least it makes it more difficult for those who like to steal card numbers.

Rita
My "coincidence?" comment was prompted by the thought that Target and HD may have entered into some type of non-public consent agreement to be EMV early adopters as part of their restitution for their responsibility in the breaches.

-gauss
__________________
gauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 07:24 PM   #496
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 6,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
I hope you're kidding, but in case it actually bothers you, it is possible to get a true chip & PIN card here in the US. I got one from Andrews FCU more than three years ago, and it worked great with the PIN in many unattended kiosks in Europe. The problem you run into (discussed at length here) is that some European companies (the Belgian and German train systems for example) simply don't accept credit cards issued outside the EU even if they are chip & PIN.

I found a local credit union that issues real chip and pin cards and may apply for one soon.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 10:01 AM   #497
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I found a local credit union that issues real chip and pin cards and may apply for one soon.
As mentioned earlier in this (long) thread. PenFed offers chip and pin. It defaults to chip and signature but definitely works as chip and pin at unmanned kiosks. I used it to buy tickets up to the top of the Berlin TV tower, transpo passes in Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, etc.
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 7%, rental income 18%
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 10:38 AM   #498
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 15,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi View Post
As mentioned earlier in this (long) thread. PenFed offers chip and pin. It defaults to chip and signature but definitely works as chip and pin at unmanned kiosks. I used it to buy tickets up to the top of the Berlin TV tower, transpo passes in Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, etc.
I used it to buy metro tickets in Vienna.
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 02:58 PM   #499
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,438
This US bank, First Niagra, is issuing chip & PIN:

New York Bank Believes Americans Can Remember a PIN | NACS Online – News & Media Center – News Archive

But PIN will only work if terminal is equipped to handle such.

It will take the US several years, but I predict by 2020 chip & PIN will predominate here too.
__________________
gerntz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 03:01 PM   #500
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,438
Spent three weeks in Spain & Portugal last month. All locations took my magnetic strip cards. Had a chip & sign card too & used when possible (AmEx). But I made sure I had cash for toll roads as I didn't want to deal with the hassle.
__________________

__________________
gerntz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
moving chip to a newer phone modhatter Other topics 3 03-04-2012 05:14 PM
Do credit unions cancel credit cards because of inactivity? rec7 FIRE and Money 11 12-22-2008 04:21 PM
GM bankruptcy as auto bargaining chip? pedorrero FIRE and Money 1 11-22-2008 05:40 PM
PNY Memory Chip (camera) kaneohe Other topics 1 09-09-2008 06:50 PM
Credit Cards and Credit Matuski Other topics 21 08-14-2006 12:40 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:32 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.