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Old 06-13-2016, 04:28 AM   #521
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Originally Posted by mpeirce View Post
Apple Pay doesn't cost merchants anything different from the customer using the credit card directly.

Apple Pay FAQ

Of course CurrentC, being promoted by Walmart, isn't really a credit card system. They reach in and take money from your bank account directly. So no credit payments from merchant to Visa/MC/etc, just the Automatic Clearing House fees, which are lower.
CurrentC now officially dead FWIW. Apple Pay rival CurrentC closing up shop for now - CNET
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:03 AM   #522
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OK! Some potentially good news for using automated kiosks in Europe:

US banks are now issuing debit/ATM cards with chips. People are reporting that they are able to use their new chip enabled debit/ATM cards in ticket machines that rejected their US-issued chip and PIN credit cards. It makes sense - the ticket machine would see that as a direct bank transaction, just like the ATM machine does. ATM machines in Europe take US issued cards - why not automated machines? Answer - until now, US issued debit/ATM cards lacked the chip which was required in automated ticket machines. See reply 16 in https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...de_France.html

Our Charles Schwab debit VISA has a chip. So I will try using it in a transportation ticket machine if my PenFed VISA chip and PIN card is rejected as an invalid card. This may solve a major issue for me.

I notice DH's newly issued BofA debit VISA has a chip. Unfortunately BofA charges 3% on foreign charges, but at least that pesky $5.00 ATM withdrawal fee goes away. Still - now it's available as a backup.

Now - if I could get Fidelity to reissue us debit/ATM cards with a chip. That would be nice.

So for all of you out there that have an ATM/debit VISA card with a chip, you may be able to use it overseas in automated kiosks. Make sure you have a 4 digit PIN.
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:09 AM   #523
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Part II - offline or online PIN verification:

Well, the rest of this post may be a non-issue, as one TripAdvisor poster reported that no PIN was required when they used their debit card to purchase tickets:
Quote:
However I have successfully used this Capital One as a debit card for the purchase of Métro tickets in Paris from a machine which would not accept my VISA card; and I have also used it to recharge my Oyster card in London, again from a machine which declined my VISA card. In neither situation was a PIN required. So whether or not it has the full chip/pin capability, it does the job.....
There is the issue of whether the PIN is embedded in the chip (offline mode) or requires a ticket machine to be online to verify the PIN. I'm pretty sure all my ATM/debit cards required me to set up a PIN after I received the card indicating these are online cards. Whereas my PenFed chip and PIN card is set up for offline mode. That may be another barrier because apparently some ticket machines operate in offline mode only.

Here is a site where you can look up a debit or credit card and find out all sorts of things about the EMV implementation: http://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/*

I looked up my PenFed credit card, and my Schwab Bank debit card, and it shows that the PenFed card uses offline PIN verification, indicating it's encoded in the chip, whereas the Schwab Bank debit card uses online verification. I suspected the latter as I was prompted to choose the PIN over the phone.

So there may be issues still with the Schwab debit card if a ticket machine only accepts offline verification.

So many gotchas!!!

*The results also imply that kiosks could accept cash advance PINs issued for chip and signature credit cards, if that support online PIN verification. Also - some folks have reported not even having to enter a PIN at some kiosks - which may mean that small amounts don't require PINs?
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:27 PM   #524
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I called the Fidelity Cash Management Account Check Card number today. They now issue ATM/debit cards with chips, so I asked to be sent new cards. Yes!

I also asked about the foreign transaction fee, and I was told there was no fee applied on ATM withdrawals - so 0%. If a debit transaction is used, or cash is withdrawn from a teller inside the bank, then the 1% foreign transaction fee applies.
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:13 AM   #525
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Been using my Chase no FX chipped CC in Amsterdam and Brugges without any problems, even at coffee shops and corner stores. Paid cash in the taxis but did not ask about cards.
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:46 AM   #526
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Did you try to buy train tickets on the kiosks with them?
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:30 AM   #527
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Been using my Chase no FX chipped CC in Amsterdam and Brugges without any problems, even at coffee shops and corner stores. Paid cash in the taxis but did not ask about cards.
Of course. I use my BofA chip and signature card all the time in Amsterdam.

But go to a train or metro/tram ticket machine and you need chip and PIN.
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:41 PM   #528
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Of course. I use my BofA chip and signature card all the time in Amsterdam.

But go to a train or metro/tram ticket machine and you need chip and PIN.
No! No! No!

You don't understand.

The letter I received with a recent card makes it quite clear that a chip and signature card is better than a chip and pin card because you don't have to remember a pin. The issuing bank told me this so it must be true. Let those behind the curve Europeans suffer with chip and pin, while we Americans have the more advanced chip and signature cards. After all, if you can't trust your banker, who can you trust?
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:06 PM   #529
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I was unable to use my Schwab ATM (visa logo) card at the kiosk to to buy bus passes outside Amsterdam's train station. I was able to use my PenFed chip/pin card at the same vending kiosk. It prompted for the pin.

Same with the TV Tower admission in Berlin. The line to get tickets was 50 people long - and people (American's) kept leaving the vending machine saying it didn't work. It worked just fine with my chip and pin PenFed card. (And I didn't have to wait in line.)

I heard the line about chip and signature being "more secure" from a lady at the produce store yesterday - she heard it from "someone".
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:54 PM   #530
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We've been living in the UK this last few weeks and been pleasantly surprised at how many places we shop have Apple Pay. I have a Penfed chip card with no foreign transaction fees and would normally have to sign when making purchases but not when using it through Apple Pay. Off to Belgium in a few weeks but I doubt we can be so lucky with lots of Apple Pay opportunities.
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Old 06-17-2016, 02:06 PM   #531
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Yeah it's odd. New Zealand has a lot of contactless terminals, which just worked with Apple Pay.

Norway, didn't see any contactless terminals.
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:38 PM   #532
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I was unable to use my Schwab ATM (visa logo) card at the kiosk to to buy bus passes outside Amsterdam's train station. I was able to use my PenFed chip/pin card at the same vending kiosk. It prompted for the pin.

Same with the TV Tower admission in Berlin. The line to get tickets was 50 people long - and people (American's) kept leaving the vending machine saying it didn't work. It worked just fine with my chip and pin PenFed card. (And I didn't have to wait in line.)

I heard the line about chip and signature being "more secure" from a lady at the produce store yesterday - she heard it from "someone".
This is really great to know! I'll just go straight to my PenFed card in Holland.

The PenFed card has an "offline PIN" which I think means the PIN is embedded in the chip on the card. This can be an advantage because not all ticket machines can go online for PIN verification.

On the other hand, some folks have reported that their US issued credit card with PIN won't work in an SNCF ticket machine, but that their US issued ATM/debit card did.

I'll try all sorts of things on our next trip!
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:39 PM   #533
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We've been living in the UK this last few weeks and been pleasantly surprised at how many places we shop have Apple Pay. I have a Penfed chip card with no foreign transaction fees and would normally have to sign when making purchases but not when using it through Apple Pay. Off to Belgium in a few weeks but I doubt we can be so lucky with lots of Apple Pay opportunities.
Oh great! I'm set up on Apple Pay with all my travel credit cards!!
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Old 06-17-2016, 07:06 PM   #534
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I called the Fidelity Cash Management Account Check Card number today. They now issue ATM/debit cards with chips, so I asked to be sent new cards. Yes!

Good to know. Thanks!
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Old 06-18-2016, 03:16 AM   #535
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Oh great! I'm set up on Apple Pay with all my travel credit cards!!
The only problem is that some terminals have a PIN shield which makes it hard to reach the RFID reader with your iPhone.
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Old 06-18-2016, 12:08 PM   #536
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We have used our chip and pin cards (Chase Canada) in self serve rail/transit terminals in Italy, UK, France with no issue whatsoever. Probably others that I cannot remember.

We have used the same card in ATM's throughout Europe, Africa, Americas, SE Asia, and Australia/NZ. Never a problem or a hiccup.
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Old 06-18-2016, 12:26 PM   #537
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We have used our chip and pin cards (Chase Canada) in self serve rail/transit terminals in Italy, UK, France with no issue whatsoever. Probably others that I cannot remember.

We have used the same card in ATM's throughout Europe, Africa, Americas, SE Asia, and Australia/NZ. Never a problem or a hiccup.
My experience has been similarly seamless, but the problems arise when the cards originate from the US.
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Old 06-18-2016, 12:30 PM   #538
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It's NFC and you would think they designed it so that it's within NFC range.
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Old 06-18-2016, 02:20 PM   #539
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We have used our chip and pin cards (Chase Canada) in self serve rail/transit terminals in Italy, UK, France with no issue whatsoever. Probably others that I cannot remember.

We have used the same card in ATM's throughout Europe, Africa, Americas, SE Asia, and Australia/NZ. Never a problem or a hiccup.
Yes, Canadian cards work great in Europe. US issued cards - not seamless. Most US issued cards with chips do not have PIN capability (they are chip and signature only). We have to go through a lot of trouble to get a chip and PIN card (only issued by a few credit unions and Barclays), and even then they default to chip and signature unless you are at an unattended kiosk. So in Europe you're constantly having to sign a receipt rather than entering a PIN.
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Old 06-18-2016, 02:22 PM   #540
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The only problem is that some terminals have a PIN shield which makes it hard to reach the RFID reader with your iPhone.
Interesting, I can't quite visualize this. You have to touch something that you can get a hand in but not an iPhone?
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