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Old 06-19-2016, 11:59 PM   #541
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Doesn't happen very often. Mostly convenience stores that lack room on the counter. But pulling a card out once in ten times is not a problem as long as you carry it as backup. The the takeout coffee place in Brugges was a daily occurrence!
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Old 06-20-2016, 08:17 AM   #542
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Doesn't happen very often. Mostly convenience stores that lack room on the counter. But pulling a card out once in ten times is not a problem as long as you carry it as backup. The the takeout coffee place in Brugges was a daily occurrence!
Oh, I see, LOL! I generally use cash for sub 20 expenses in Europe.

Lots of cheap breakfast places in Brugges.
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Old 06-21-2016, 01:54 AM   #543
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We have found only one coffee place that takes cash only. It is by the market square in Cologne. None of the supermarkets take RFID. That will limit Apple Pay.
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:29 AM   #544
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NFC, or contactless.
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:40 AM   #545
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NFC, or contactless.
He was talking about Apple Pay I think so it should be NFC.

I don't know why a European coffee shop would have a pay terminal out of reach unless they wanted their customers to pay cash.
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Old 06-21-2016, 09:33 AM   #546
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All contactless is NFC. RFID is cheap transmitters for tracking shipments and stuff. Not used for mobile transactions. Too long a range for people to be comfortable with security.
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Old 06-22-2016, 02:40 AM   #547
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I don't know why a European coffee shop would have a pay terminal out of reach unless they wanted their customers to pay cash.
It is easily within reach of a card. Just not enough room for a phone. Probably because Apple Pay has very little presence here (along with NFC).
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Old 08-28-2016, 11:18 PM   #548
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OK! Some potentially good news for using automated kiosks in Europe:

US banks are now issuing debit/ATM cards with chips. People are reporting that they are able to use their new chip enabled debit/ATM cards in ticket machines that rejected their US-issued chip and PIN credit cards. It makes sense - the ticket machine would see that as a direct bank transaction, just like the ATM machine does. ATM machines in Europe take US issued cards - why not automated machines? Answer - until now, US issued debit/ATM cards lacked the chip which was required in automated ticket machines. See reply 16 in https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...de_France.html

Our Charles Schwab debit VISA has a chip. So I will try using it in a transportation ticket machine if my PenFed VISA chip and PIN card is rejected as an invalid card. This may solve a major issue for me.

I notice DH's newly issued BofA debit VISA has a chip. Unfortunately BofA charges 3% on foreign charges, but at least that pesky $5.00 ATM withdrawal fee goes away. Still - now it's available as a backup.

Now - if I could get Fidelity to reissue us debit/ATM cards with a chip. That would be nice.

So for all of you out there that have an ATM/debit VISA card with a chip, you may be able to use it overseas in automated kiosks. Make sure you have a 4 digit PIN.
New ATM Debit card with chip to the rescue in Europe!

For some reason (these things are so fickle), the NS (Netherlands train/metro) kiosk at Schiphol didn't like my PenFed VISA with chip and PIN. Didn't even give me a chance to use my PIN or anything - just said "invalid card" immediately after inserting it - tried reinserting a few times. It could easily just have been that particular machine.

Then I tried my BofA travel rewards VISA. It accepted the card as valid, but wanted a PIN. This card is chip and signature, so I only have a cash advance PIN for it, and I didn't remember the PIN at the time. It might have worked. But interesting that it saw it as a valid card - I'll keep my PIN handy for it now, just in case.

Finally I tried my Fidelity Cash Management ATM/Debit VISA card (aka the Fidelity VISA Gold Check Card)*. Worked like a champ! Recognized card, accepted debit PIN, and topped off my metro card. Excellent!

Fortunately, a couple of months ago I read some folks mention that they had luck with their chipped ATM/Debit cards in the France train machines that would not accept their US-issued credit cards (see my quoted post above). So I called Fidelity and asked them if a chipped version of their Fidelity VISA Gold Check Card was available, and they happily sent us the new versions with chips. So glad I had it!

I've used the PenFed card with PIN before OK in Europe, even though it has been a while. I'll be trying it again somewhere I'm sure.

This is typical in Europe - you go up to a kiosk, and you have to be armed with a set of cards to try because you never know which one will work! Hopefully you've selected English on the kiosk display, too, as you navigate through all the attempts. I won't be surprised if the above scenario repeats several times during our current trip and that different cards are accepted by different machines with no rhyme or reason for it.

* The Fidelity Cash Management debit VISA card supposedly has 0% foreign transaction fee for ATM withdrawals, and 1% for debit card purchases. It's not clear that we were charged the 1% for our debit usage at the kiosk based on the dollar amount that has been deducted from our account when I checked online. The debit charge is still processing, so we'll see.
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Old 08-28-2016, 11:32 PM   #549
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I had the same problem a couple of years ago with the NS kiosk at AMS airport. I tried the Barclay's Arrival Plus, which I had then and it didn't work, even though it worked at kiosks on French autoroute toll booths and other unattended places.

One theory is that they only take European credit cards or credit cards issued in the Netherlands and perhaps neighboring countries. I've heard of some cell phone carriers in Europe also only taking credit cards from EU banks, had nothing to do with the chip.

At Centraal Station in Amsterdam, I was able to use one of my cards to purchase a tourist pass at one of the kiosk underneath the station.

The other thing is when I went to Belgium last year, the only card that I could use at the train kiosks was the First Tech World MasterCard, which is a true chip and pin with offline capabilities.

I believe the Barclays Arrival Plus was online meaning I was able to set the PIN by initializing at a Walmart. I forget the exact procedure but I set a PIN whereas with the First Tech, I haven't been able to set the PIN, though I might be able to in their ATMs or their branches.

Ultimately though, I'd rather they support Apple Pay and other NFC mobile wallets. The London Underground does now so you don't have to get their Oyster cards any more, supposedly.
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Old 08-28-2016, 11:49 PM   #550
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I had the same problem a couple of years ago with the NS kiosk at AMS airport. I tried the Barclay's Arrival Plus, which I had then and it didn't work, even though it worked at kiosks on French autoroute toll booths and other unattended places.

One theory is that they only take European credit cards or credit cards issued in the Netherlands and perhaps neighboring countries. I've heard of some cell phone carriers in Europe also only taking credit cards from EU banks, had nothing to do with the chip.

At Centraal Station in Amsterdam, I was able to use one of my cards to purchase a tourist pass at one of the kiosk underneath the station.

The other thing is when I went to Belgium last year, the only card that I could use at the train kiosks was the First Tech World MasterCard, which is a true chip and pin with offline capabilities.

I believe the Barclays Arrival Plus was online meaning I was able to set the PIN by initializing at a Walmart. I forget the exact procedure but I set a PIN whereas with the First Tech, I haven't been able to set the PIN, though I might be able to in their ATMs or their branches.

Ultimately though, I'd rather they support Apple Pay and other NFC mobile wallets. The London Underground does now so you don't have to get their Oyster cards any more, supposedly.
Most of my cards are set up for Apple Pay so I'd love to use that in Europe as it's more secure than sticking a card in a machine.

I had read reports that the PenFed Card worked fine in the Amsterdam Centraal Station, so I expected it to work at the airport station. Especially since it is a true chip and PIN with offline capability (preassigned PIN). Interesting that you had the same experience at Schiphol.

I'm just so glad to have the debit card with chip now as a backup.
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Old 08-29-2016, 01:56 AM   #551
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Two days ago in Liege I tried to pay for a carpark stay at an automated booth but it wouldn't accept my Penfed chipped card, however it did accept my new chipped ATM card.

I've used my Penfed chip and signature card a lot this past 10 days but the Belgians just don't want me to sign any receipt even when I point to the message on the machine. At a small pharmacy in YPres the man didn't understand and he actually signed my copy of the receipt. Maybe these smaller towns in Belgium that we are visiting just don't see many American visitors, they certainly don't have many English speakers which makes it all the more charming.

The charges (some of them quite large) are all showing up on my Penfed account so it doesn't seem to matter that I am not entering a PIN or signing anything, but does show that losing a chip and signature card means that anyone can still use it.
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Old 08-29-2016, 03:01 AM   #552
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Two days ago in Liege I tried to pay for a carpark stay at an automated booth but it wouldn't accept my Penfed chipped card, however it did accept my new chipped ATM card.

I've used my Penfed chip and signature card a lot this past 10 days but the Belgians just don't want me to sign any receipt even when I point to the message on the machine. At a small pharmacy in YPres the man didn't understand and he actually signed my copy of the receipt. Maybe these smaller towns in Belgium that we are visiting just don't see many American visitors, they certainly don't have many English speakers which makes it all the more charming.

The charges (some of them quite large) are all showing up on my Penfed account so it doesn't seem to matter that I am not entering a PIN or signing anything, but does show that losing a chip and signature card means that anyone can still use it.
Funny!

Yes - the signature thing is not a security feature!!!! So silly. I think signature is really only used to as backup verification if a charge is challenged. I know one restaurant in Amsterdam a couple of years ago didn't want my signature on the receipt because they didn't keep their copy of the receipts!!!

Yes, losing a chip and signature card means that anyone can still use it!!! Same as before.

Interesting that you also ended up using an ATM card with chip as a backup.

Are you able to get along in French in the Belgium smaller towns? Do you speak French?

We've visited Belgium, but only Antwerp and Bruges where they see a huge number of tourists and understand enough English.
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Old 08-29-2016, 03:06 AM   #553
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Also coming into common use are cards with RFID transmitters in them. I urge everyone with newer cards to keep them inside metal cases designed to prevent signal penetration and theft of your card codes. They are nice to use as you just wave your card over the reader and then enter your PIN but they can be pinged and read by someone standing next to you.
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Chip and Pin Card for traveling
Old 08-29-2016, 08:30 AM   #554
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Chip and Pin Card for traveling

The Fidelity Visa Card which is attached to a brokerage account works in the states like a credit card, but also overseas like an ATM card or a chip and pin card is wonderful for traveling. They also wave the fees when used as an ATM card.
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:32 AM   #555
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Are you able to get along in French in the Belgium smaller towns? Do you speak French?

We've visited Belgium, but only Antwerp and Bruges where they see a huge number of tourists and understand enough English.
I only speak a little French but my wife speaks much more than I do. However I do enjoy making the attempt and the folks are friendly and seem to appreciate the effort.
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Old 08-29-2016, 10:15 AM   #556
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Netherlands

Interesting problems in Amsterdam last year. We also tried to pay for parking and usually ended up with a local helping us with their own card. The Netherlands government (which the majority of the Dutch hate) has created a problem in only accepting their own cards. What is weird is our bank in Hungary is actually a Netherlands Bank (K&H Bank) yet because our branch is in Hungary not accepted at all in the Netherlands. It was a huge problem to try and get some cash and we ended up using an American card at a larger bank yet were limited to $500. So much for camaraderie within the EU.
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Old 08-29-2016, 01:03 PM   #557
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We just came back from four weeks in Europe. I only used a Chase Sapphire credit card, even though I brought along the PenFed card just in case.

Most places we went to required a signature, but there were a number of places (mostly in Paris) that didn't ask. I suspect that technically they should have, but they didn't care.

When I bought tickets at the Paris metro at the kiosk, the machine went through an odd transition where it looked like I'd need to enter a PIN, but then it accepted the transaction, with no PIN or signature, and we got our metro passes. This was with the Chase Sapphire card.

The one place that I needed a PIN was at a gas station before returning our rental car in Iceland. The PenFed card was in a suitcase and I didn't want to dig it out and the gas pump would not take the Sapphire card without a PIN. I don't know the PIN for the Sapphire card, so I'm not sure what would have happened if entered a valid PIN. Maybe it would have worked?

I'm skeptical that it would have worked though, because I went inside and they sold me a pre-paid card which I used at the pump. I was left with the impression that this was fairly routine. Luckily this was enough to fill-up the tank, so I didn't lose any money on the transaction.
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Old 08-29-2016, 01:22 PM   #558
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The Chase Sapphire card's PIN would not have worked.
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Old 08-29-2016, 01:24 PM   #559
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I once bought train tickets in France using 0000 as the PIN.

Someone on Flyertalk said that worked but haven't been able to repeat it. Better to have actual Chip and PIN cards or also mobile payment systems.
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:31 AM   #560
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I'm in northern Netherlands, Friesland - on an outer barrier island with a major tourist destination. VISA is not accepted here in any form. It's either cash, or a debit bank card on the Maestro network. No credit cards at all. First time I have ever run into this restriction.

Now that I think about it, several of the grocery stores in Amsterdam had "no VISA" signs, and I think they only accepted cash or Maestro debit card. But most other places, especially restaurants, accepted credit cards including VISA. But not here on the island - no retailers or restaurants.
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