Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[Alan]

Banks or Visa and MC get more for processing signature verification than they do for PIN verification.

So they want to keep using signatures while the merchants want to use PIN.

Typical.

Hopefully, the consumer can easily change his or her PIN.

I think the PIN is encoded onto the CHIP so I would expect a new card is needed. I just ordered a replacement CHIP & PIN card from Penfed on their advice since the prompt for a PIN didn't even work at a car park in Canada and I had to ask a Canadian friend to use his PIN card.

Anyway I asked if I could choose my own PIN like I did when first ordering my current CHIP & PIN card and she said no, it had to be a computer generated PIN.

 

[Alan]

Hopefully, the consumer can easily change his or her PIN.

A quick search and the Amex site says you can change your PIN at special UK ATMs that offer PIN management services that can update the CHIP on the card.

American Express Dollar and Euro Charge Cards ? CHIP & PIN

Once your PIN is issued you will not be able to change your PIN unless you visit the UK, where you can use UK LINK ATMs that offer PIN Management services.

 

[audreyh1]

Banks or Visa and MC get more for processing signature verification than they do for PIN verification.

So they want to keep using signatures while the merchants want to use PIN.

Right - that's what Walmart is battling them over. Walmart wants customers to use their PIN to improve security and has been suing VISA over "swipe fees" in general anyway.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304688104579465690629247558

 

[anethum]

When I arrived at Paris CDG a few days ago, I tried to use my PenFed chip and pin visa at a kiosk to load up my Navigo card (electronic metro and RER pass). My card was rejected. I had to do my transaction w/ a human. I used the same card and she had me sign the receipt. Had to sign a receipt the next time I used the card.



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[audreyh1]

When I arrived at Paris CDG a few days ago, I tried to use my PenFed chip and pin visa at a kiosk to load up my Navigo card (electronic metro and RER pass). My card was rejected. I had to do my transaction w/ a human. I used the same card and she had me sign the receipt. Had to sign a receipt the next time I used the card.



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Well that stinks. A lot of folks report being able to use the PenFed cards with PIN in the automated kiosks, so I wonder why yours did not work.

 

[Meadbh]

I spent the past month traveling in 6 European countries with my Canadian Chip & Pin card and found the procedure to be exactly as it is in Canada. No problems whatsoever. And there are no unexpected charges on my credit card.

 

[Alan]

I spent the past month traveling in 6 European countries with my Canadian Chip & Pin card and found the procedure to be exactly as it is in Canada. No problems whatsoever. And there are no unexpected charges on my credit card.

Our Canadian friends had no problems with their CHIP and PIN card in the same machine that rejected our Penfed CHIP and PIN.

Sigh, I live in a city that is the center of the US space program and sent men to the moon, but I can't get a CHIP and PIN that works outside of the country. Still waiting for the replacement card from Penfed since they don't understand why their card won't work with a PIN and believe I have a card with a defective PIN.

 

[explanade]

Not about technology. It's about the greedy fight over transaction fees.

That is why there isn't a widespread system of mobile payments either.

We should be able to load up our credit cards and things like Oyster card credits on apps. On our smartphones and use them to pay, rather than pulling out credit cards.

The tech exists but none of the players want to compromise on fees.

 

[Alan]

Not about technology. It's about the greedy fight over transaction fees.

That is why there isn't a widespread system of mobile payments either.

We should be able to load up our credit cards and things like Oyster card credits on apps. On our smartphones and use them to pay, rather than pulling out credit cards.

The tech exists but none of the players want to compromise on fees.

I'm afraid that's the top and bottom of it, but BofA, Chase and Amex all stated that they only provide CHIP and Signature, Penfed seem convinced from both their website and the discussions I've had with them that they provide CHIP and PIN. I don't think Penfed are lying, they just can't get the technology right ( or whoever is producing their cards)

 

[audreyh1]

I have read posts that say that the PenFed chip and PIN works fine in the UK with the PIN, so some of the cards work as expected.

 

[Alan]

I have read posts that say that the PenFed chip and PIN works fine in the UK with the PIN, so some of the cards work as expected.

Since I am waiting for the 3rd chip and pin card I have requested from Penfed I'm sure you can understand why I am doubtful that I will have one that works as it should, in Australia when we get there in July. It will only be a problem in unattended kiosks which should be infrequent and I will have my UK chip and pin Visa debit card that I know works, but has transaction fees. (I have enough money in my UK bank account to cover those inconveniences should they occur).

 

[explanade]

There's suppose to be some priority settings in the chip about which form of authentication it prefers.

Also there is a bias against foreign cards. You can't do certain web transactions for instance. In Amsterdam, the terminal screens immediately switched to English when I inserted my Chase Sapphire Preferred card so it tracks the nationality of the bearer.

And probably changes the authentication requirements.

I've heard of some French sites accepting cards from nearby uk and Benelux but not more distant EU countries.

 

[audreyh1]

There's suppose to be some priority settings in the chip about which form of authentication it prefers.

Also there is a bias against foreign cards. You can't do certain web transactions for instance. In Amsterdam, the terminal screens immediately switched to English when I inserted my Chase Sapphire Preferred card so it tracks the nationality of the bearer.

And probably changes the authentication requirements.

I've heard of some French sites accepting cards from nearby uk and Benelux but not more distant EU countries.

Yeah, sounds like this has something to do with it. I've read on the web that in France, if it's not tied to a French bank account, some kiosks won't accept it. What a pain.

 

[audreyh1]

Also, cards with a VISA logo seem to be more widely accepted than others in Europe.

 

[explanade]

Maybe there's a way to report to Visa which kiosks are rejecting the cards.

They are part of a big push to get chipped cards, tho not necessarily chip and PIN.

 

[Meadbh]

There's suppose to be some priority settings in the chip about which form of authentication it prefers.

Also there is a bias against foreign cards. You can't do certain web transactions for instance. In Amsterdam, the terminal screens immediately switched to English when I inserted my Chase Sapphire Preferred card so it tracks the nationality of the bearer.

And probably changes the authentication requirements.

I've heard of some French sites accepting cards from nearby uk and Benelux but not more distant EU countries.

Yes, after inserting my Chip & Pin card in the Point of Sale terminal, I was repeatedly asked whether I would like the bill in Canadian dollars or in Euros, Forints or Korunas, respectively.

 

[Alan]

There's suppose to be some priority settings in the chip about which form of authentication it prefers.

This is exactly what the Penfed rep told me, that at shops and restaurants it will prompt for a signature but will prompt for a PIN at unattended kiosks like pay and display car parks, where my card didn't work.

For this to work it would require chip and pin terminals to indicate which type they are and I don't see the financial benefits to the machine makers to make 2 types of terminal. (outside of the USA that is)

This is why I have little hope that when I receive my 3rd card that it will work any better at unattended kiosks. But I think it is better to complain and have them go to the expense of re-issuing cards than just living with what I've got. I have no auto-pay accounts set up on the card so getting a new card each time is no big hassle these days.

I just looked at the statements tab on my Penfed account, which lists past statements due to a major complaint by REWAHOO a few years ago, and this next card will be my 6th card in 6 years. I got my first card in June 2008, 3 have been compromised and I have now had 2 failed attempts at CHIP and PIN.

 

[REWahoo]

I just looked at the statements tab on my Penfed account, which lists past statements due to a major complaint by REWAHOO a few years ago...

I seriously doubt mine was the only complaint PenFed received, but I was happy to see them provide the ability to see my statements from reissued CC account numbers online. Bet they got tired of making and mailing paper copies when members like me insisted on having that information.

 

[Alan]

I seriously doubt mine was the only complaint PenFed received, but I was happy to see them provide the ability to see my statements from reissued CC account numbers online. Bet they got tired of making and mailing paper copies when members like me insisted on having that information.

I remember being impressed my your, ahem, ranting on this site about getting old statements after your card had been compromised and cancelled, that when I saw the new feature appear I thought to myself,"That's my mate REW got that fixed!!"

 

[23Red]

Just got back

We just returned the other day from a jaunt through Germany, Venice, and Amsterdam where we charged nearly everything to our card. Every other hotel, restaurant, bar, and store we visited was fine with our swipe and sign. The ONLY place we had a problem with was trying to purchase a train ticket from Amsterdam to Landstuhl and couldn't use our typical US swipe/sign card (kiosks be damned...we couldn't even use it at the counter. Cost us a 5 euro+3% fee on a 500 euro withdrawal from Travelex). The station had 1 ATM that was out of order so every foreigner without enough Euros had to wait in the Travelex line for money. Great racket they had going on there.

Didn't have time to get a chip and pin. We decided on Sunday to go to Venice on Monday, just one day later. Packed some bags, hit BWI, and off we went for a week...

 

[audreyh1]

We just returned the other day from a jaunt through Germany, Venice, and Amsterdam where we charged nearly everything to our card. Every other hotel, restaurant, bar, and store we visited was fine with our swipe and sign. The ONLY place we had a problem with was trying to purchase a train ticket from Amsterdam to Landstuhl and couldn't use our typical US swipe/sign card (kiosks be damned...we couldn't even use it at the counter. Cost us a 5 euro+3% fee on a 500 euro withdrawal from Travelex). The station had 1 ATM that was out of order so every foreigner without enough Euros had to wait in the Travelex line for money. Great racket they had going on there.

Didn't have time to get a chip and pin. We decided on Sunday to go to Venice on Monday, just one day later. Packed some bags, hit BWI, and off we went for a week...

They accepted my BofA chip and signature card just fine at the train ticket desk in Amsterdam Central Station, and yes their sign indicated no swipe cards.

 

[gauss]

Since I am waiting for the 3rd chip and pin card I have requested from Penfed I'm sure you can understand why I am doubtful that I will have one that works as it should, in Australia when we get there in July. It will only be a problem in unattended kiosks which should be infrequent and I will have my UK chip and pin Visa debit card that I know works, but has transaction fees. (I have enough money in my UK bank account to cover those inconveniences should they occur).

Alan,

I have a question of how the PINs work when PenFed reissues a chip enabled card. Do the existing PINs carry over, or are new ones created?

The reason that I ask is that when I initially requested a chip enabled card (for my penfed existing magstrip card). I was prompted to enter a PIN on the web site. I then received a slip in the US Mail containing a totally different PIN. As such I am totally confused.

Thanks for any info that you can provide.

-gauss

 

[Alan]

Alan,

I have a question of how the PINs work when PenFed reissues a chip enabled card. Do the existing PINs carry over, or are new ones created?

The reason that I ask is that when I initially requested a chip enabled card (for my penfed existing magstrip card). I was prompted to enter a PIN on the web site. I then received a slip in the US Mail containing a totally different PIN. As such I am totally confused.

Thanks for any info that you can provide.

-gauss

Well, my new CHIP and PIN card arrived, exactly the same number as the old card, different 3 digit CCV number on the back. The rep told me I will receive a new PIN in the mail, but this card actually says VISA Signature on the front of the card so I definitely don't expect it to work any better than the CHIP card it is replacing.

 

[Debinnov a]

So does it even make sense for me to go to Pen Fed and get a chip and pin cc for Europe UK trip in Oct. What other card would be comparable? I have an Am Ex and a Bank of America cash back Visa but I need to check on foreign transaction fees.

Debbie

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[Bestwifeever]

Alan, you are the chip and pin crusader for the rest of us! I would wager that you know a lot more about how these cards should work than the credit card companies issuing them in the USA do.