Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[Lagniappe]

I just got back from a trip to Dublin, where I used my PenFed Chip and Pin card. It defaulted to chip and signature the whole trip, even in the "unattended" areas. I was surprised, because I remember it working on my last trip. Perhaps I was wrong...

 

[2B]

BTW, has anyone found a good ATM card that doesn't impose fees for international ATM withdraws?

I've been using an Etrade card for years and looks like they've started imposing a 1% fee.

I use the Etrade debit card as my primary card at European ATMs. There is the 1% currency fee that they've charged for the many years I've used their card. It's nothing new. I asked about it they they claimed it wasn't a fee they charged but a requirement for the currency conversion. They do reimburse any bank ATM fees.

I have also used other cards. These have always had a fee from the bank, the currency fee and sometimes a charge from the European ATM bank. I carry a back up card when I'm traveling and will occasionally get a small amount of cash to prove the card works.

I can live with the 1% fee but I'd be interested in a bank that is truly "no fee" that doesn't bury fees in the currency exchange rate.

 

[2B]

For now, I'm just going to wait it out, hope that the cards I have convert to chip and PIN at some point.

I think its a given that we'll get chip and PIN in the US because of the recurring data scandals. Target has announced they will put out new cards with the chip and PIN. That's interesting because they were leading the way when they found that customers not used to the PIN entry were taking an extra 15 seconds to check out. They dumped the chip and PIN and went back to the old technology.

I think it will take about 2 years for the US to convert the cards. Some merchants may still use signatures after that to avoid the cost of the new equipment. Eventually, banks will force the issue. Many of us will eagerly change cards when true chip and PIN cards are available in the US. I'm not sure if the credit card companies are aware of this demand.

 

[audreyh1]

I use the Etrade debit card as my primary card at European ATMs. There is the 1% currency fee that they've charged for the many years I've used their card. It's nothing new. I asked about it they they claimed it wasn't a fee they charged but a requirement for the currency conversion. They do reimburse any bank ATM fees.

I have also used other cards. These have always had a fee from the bank, the currency fee and sometimes a charge from the European ATM bank. I carry a back up card when I'm traveling and will occasionally get a small amount of cash to prove the card works.

I can live with the 1% fee but I'd be interested in a bank that is truly "no fee" that doesn't bury fees in the currency exchange rate.

That 1% is what the issuer charges them. Fee free cards are actually reimbursing the customer that 1%.

 

[audreyh1]

I just got back from a trip to Dublin, where I used my PenFed Chip and Pin card. It defaulted to chip and signature the whole trip, even in the "unattended" areas. I was surprised, because I remember it working on my last trip. Perhaps I was wrong...

So you were able to enter a PIN at kiosks?

 

[Easypick]

In the past we have not had any problems using our Capital One card on our foreign travels as all merchants we used had the default to signature option. We are planning a Christmas river cruise and from reading some of the cruise forums, many of the smaller merchants require chip and pin. I have been considering getting a prepaid MasterCard from Travelex (see their website) for those situations.

Has anyone tried or considered this option as a backup when chip and pin are required?

 

[Lagniappe]

So you were table to enter a PIN at kiosks?

I was able to enter a pin on the last trip, but on this one, it never asked for a pin, it always defaulted to signature. So someone had to come over and get my signature while I held up the queue.

 

[Alan]

I was able to enter a pin on the last trip, but on this one, it never asked for a pin, it always defaulted to signature. So someone had to come over and get my signature while I held up the queue.

Thanks for the update, that's just what I experienced in Canada.

We went to the grocery store the other day (here in the USA) and checked out at the self service kiosks and even with quite a large bill the attendant was not required to verify the signature on the card, just have to make a few marks with the stylus to complete the purchase. Convenience (for both store and customer) still ranks higher than fraud detection.

 

[audreyh1]

I was able to enter a pin on the last trip, but on this one, it never asked for a pin, it always defaulted to signature. So someone had to come over and get my signature while I held up the queue.

Not quite unattended, I suppose. I expect the card to default to signature whenever possible, but I'm hoping it will work for me in the truly unattended situations.

 

[explanade]

Banks get more for signatures than PIN.

It's the stores pushing for PIN, for lower processing fees.

 

[Alan]

Banks get more for signatures than PIN.

It's the stores pushing for PIN, for lower processing fees.

Do you have a link to an article explaining this for credit cards. I know that it is more expensive to process PINs for debit cards but that is a different technology to the new CHIP and PIN.

http://www.cardfellow.com/blog/debit-card-transaction-fees/


You may well be correct, I would just like to understand the mechanisms

 

[kcowan]

We found that our PIN equipped debit cards would not work at ATMs in Turkey and Switzerland. We had to use a credit card advance!

 

[explanade]

I didn't know there would be a difference. Haven't even heard of chipped debit cards.

I recall reading an article shortly after the Target breach that this was the case but maybe it was about debit cards, though I haven't heard of any bank offering chipped debit cards.

 

[Meadbh]

I didn't know there would be a difference. Haven't even heard of chipped debit cards.

I recall reading an article shortly after the Target breach that this was the case but maybe it was about debit cards, though I haven't heard of any bank offering chipped debit cards.

Chipped debit cards are standard in Canada.

 

[Alan]

Chipped debit cards are standard in Canada.

and the UK

 

[audreyh1]

Banks get more for signatures than PIN.

It's the stores pushing for PIN, for lower processing fees.

Yes, this is one of the things Walmart is suing VISA over.

 

[Alan]

Yes, this is one of the things Walmart is suing VISA over.

Is this the case?
Wal-Mart sues Visa for $5 billion over card swipe fees | Reuters

If so I don't see any detail about CHIP and PIN charges being more expensive than CHIP and Signature. It seems to be about swipe fees charged in the past 9 years.

Wal-Mart contends that that the way Visa set swipe fees violated antitrust regulations and generated more than $350 billion for card issuers over the nearly 9-year period in question, in part at the expense of the retailer and customers.

 

[braumeister]

Chipped debit cards are standard in Canada.

FWIW, I had no trouble recently using my un-chipped USAA debit card to get Euros at several ATMs in Belgium.

 

[Meadbh]

I was recently in Europe with a friend. She was unable to get cash from a DeutscheBank ATM at FRA using her debit card. I had no problem. Later on, my friend was able to get cash from an ATM in Vienna. We have accounts with different Canadian banks. Both cards have chips. Go figure.

 

[braumeister]

One possible explanation:
When I called to tell my credit card issuers that I'd be in Europe during certain dates, some asked if I wanted to include my debit card as well. I said "Does that even matter?" and got "Oh yes, definitely."

 

[Alan]

One possible explanation:
When I called to tell my credit card issuers that I'd be in Europe during certain dates, some asked if I wanted to include my debit card as well. I said "Does that even matter?" and got "Oh yes, definitely."

That didn't help with my US bank debit card. I always tell them I'll be out of country, and when I use it in ATM's in Europe it is hit and miss whether it will work or not.

Similarly I always tell Penfed when we'll be traveling, they even have a neat UI on their website where you can list States and countries by date range when you are traveling. Of course that didn't help last year when I am registered as being in England in June, and they don't flag $18k worth of fraudulent use of a clone of my card in NYC in a single day.

 

[braumeister]

It seems clear to me that they're toying with you, Alan.
Maybe it's time for you to "go down there and give them a piece of your mind" as my father used to say.

 

[Meadbh]

One possible explanation:
When I called to tell my credit card issuers that I'd be in Europe during certain dates, some asked if I wanted to include my debit card as well. I said "Does that even matter?" and got "Oh yes, definitely."

My friend had informed her bank where and when she would be traveling. It didn't help. Unfortunately she had chosen to rely on ATMs for cash flow rather than buying currency prior to leaving home. I had to be her banker for the first week of the trip.

 

[Alan]

My friend had informed her bank where and when she would be traveling. It didn't help. Unfortunately she had chosen to rely on ATMs for cash flow rather than buying currency prior to leaving home. I had to be her banker for the first week of the trip.

A similar thing happened with DD and SIL when we all went to Spain and France a few years ago. The first week was in Spain near to Pamplona and we both had regular US ATM swipe cards, hers from Chase and mine from Bank of Internet. My card worked in about half the ATMs in Spain and hers worked in none so I loaned her Euros. Once we had moved to a place in France near Biarritz she found an ATM that took her card and she was able to pay me back.

 

[Alan]

It seems clear to me that they're toying with you, Alan.
Maybe it's time for you to "go down there and give them a piece of your mind" as my father used to say.

You're right, they are really getting my dander up