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Old 06-23-2014, 08:55 AM   #161
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Banks get more for signatures than PIN.

It's the stores pushing for PIN, for lower processing fees.
Do you have a link to an article explaining this for credit cards. I know that it is more expensive to process PINs for debit cards but that is a different technology to the new CHIP and PIN.

http://www.cardfellow.com/blog/debit-card-transaction-fees/



You may well be correct, I would just like to understand the mechanisms
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:58 AM   #162
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We found that our PIN equipped debit cards would not work at ATMs in Turkey and Switzerland. We had to use a credit card advance!
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:00 AM   #163
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I didn't know there would be a difference. Haven't even heard of chipped debit cards.

I recall reading an article shortly after the Target breach that this was the case but maybe it was about debit cards, though I haven't heard of any bank offering chipped debit cards.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:11 AM   #164
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I didn't know there would be a difference. Haven't even heard of chipped debit cards.

I recall reading an article shortly after the Target breach that this was the case but maybe it was about debit cards, though I haven't heard of any bank offering chipped debit cards.
Chipped debit cards are standard in Canada.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:40 AM   #165
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Chipped debit cards are standard in Canada.
and the UK
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:01 AM   #166
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Banks get more for signatures than PIN.

It's the stores pushing for PIN, for lower processing fees.
Yes, this is one of the things Walmart is suing VISA over.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:13 AM   #167
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Yes, this is one of the things Walmart is suing VISA over.
Is this the case?
Wal-Mart sues Visa for $5 billion over card swipe fees | Reuters

If so I don't see any detail about CHIP and PIN charges being more expensive than CHIP and Signature. It seems to be about swipe fees charged in the past 9 years.

Quote:
Wal-Mart contends that that the way Visa set swipe fees violated antitrust regulations and generated more than $350 billion for card issuers over the nearly 9-year period in question, in part at the expense of the retailer and customers.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:25 AM   #168
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Chipped debit cards are standard in Canada.
FWIW, I had no trouble recently using my un-chipped USAA debit card to get Euros at several ATMs in Belgium.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:30 AM   #169
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I was recently in Europe with a friend. She was unable to get cash from a DeutscheBank ATM at FRA using her debit card. I had no problem. Later on, my friend was able to get cash from an ATM in Vienna. We have accounts with different Canadian banks. Both cards have chips. Go figure.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:37 PM   #170
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One possible explanation:
When I called to tell my credit card issuers that I'd be in Europe during certain dates, some asked if I wanted to include my debit card as well. I said "Does that even matter?" and got "Oh yes, definitely."
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:45 PM   #171
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One possible explanation:
When I called to tell my credit card issuers that I'd be in Europe during certain dates, some asked if I wanted to include my debit card as well. I said "Does that even matter?" and got "Oh yes, definitely."
That didn't help with my US bank debit card. I always tell them I'll be out of country, and when I use it in ATM's in Europe it is hit and miss whether it will work or not.

Similarly I always tell Penfed when we'll be traveling, they even have a neat UI on their website where you can list States and countries by date range when you are traveling. Of course that didn't help last year when I am registered as being in England in June, and they don't flag $18k worth of fraudulent use of a clone of my card in NYC in a single day.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:45 PM   #172
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It seems clear to me that they're toying with you, Alan.
Maybe it's time for you to "go down there and give them a piece of your mind" as my father used to say.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:18 PM   #173
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One possible explanation:
When I called to tell my credit card issuers that I'd be in Europe during certain dates, some asked if I wanted to include my debit card as well. I said "Does that even matter?" and got "Oh yes, definitely."
My friend had informed her bank where and when she would be traveling. It didn't help. Unfortunately she had chosen to rely on ATMs for cash flow rather than buying currency prior to leaving home. I had to be her banker for the first week of the trip.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:23 PM   #174
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My friend had informed her bank where and when she would be traveling. It didn't help. Unfortunately she had chosen to rely on ATMs for cash flow rather than buying currency prior to leaving home. I had to be her banker for the first week of the trip.
A similar thing happened with DD and SIL when we all went to Spain and France a few years ago. The first week was in Spain near to Pamplona and we both had regular US ATM swipe cards, hers from Chase and mine from Bank of Internet. My card worked in about half the ATMs in Spain and hers worked in none so I loaned her Euros. Once we had moved to a place in France near Biarritz she found an ATM that took her card and she was able to pay me back.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:25 PM   #175
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It seems clear to me that they're toying with you, Alan.
Maybe it's time for you to "go down there and give them a piece of your mind" as my father used to say.
You're right, they are really getting my dander up
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:29 PM   #176
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You're right, they are really getting my dander up
Have you tried Head & Shoulders?
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:41 PM   #177
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Have you tried Head & Shoulders?
Have you seen how much hair I have

On 2nd thoughts I do have hair on my shoulders so your suggestion may be a good one after all.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:52 PM   #178
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Have you seen how much hair I have
Yes.
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On 2nd thoughts I do have hair on my shoulders...
So that's where it went! Mystery solved...
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:14 AM   #179
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I had very little problem in Ireland and Scotland with my PenFed visa. Nearly everyone there looked at the card, then got a pin knowing I'd have to sign. There were a couple places where it just didn't work and I had to use a different card. The rental card company looked at it and said without raised letters it wouldn't work since it said "electronic use only" even though he typed in the numbers on my other card. Strange.

My PenFed ATM worked without fail too. I tried using my BofA one twice at Barclays since they said there was no charge but it never worked. 4 digit pin. I was lucky because I rarely use my PenFed ATM at home and had forgotten the pin and finally found it with my paper work less than a week before, not time enough for a replacement. I had figured the BofA one would work but I would've needed to find another way to get money had I not gotten PenFed to work. 1% ATM fee with my PenFed card.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:53 AM   #180
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Thanks for all the reports. Glad to know things worked fairly well, RunningBum.

We tend to take a lot of cash both in US$ and Euros.

Buying Euros in the US is not cheap. But it can work out. Order them when the $ is stronger and it might make up for the fee. I got lucky last summer because there was a dip in the Euro the week I ordered. By the time I got to Europe, the exchange rate was higher. I came out ahead even with the fee.

I ordered my Euros from BofA on line and then went to a local branch to pick them up 2 days later. Arriving with Euros already in our pocket was so convenient.
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