Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[audreyh1]

The CHIP and PIn card I had that only worked as chip and signature said Platinum in the same spot but as I said above it wouldn't work in an unattended kiosk in Canada and never prompted for a PIN which is why they said it was a faulty CHIP and changed it. Now it says Signature where it once said Platinum, and I did opt for a system generated PIN as that is what the rep told me would work.

I don't expect it to work as CHIP and PIN in Australia, but I have a backup UK card that will work.

I surrender.

Hi Alan

You said the one time that the car park machine you tried your card in said VISA or MasterCard only, and you had an American Express. And it did tell you invalid card. That makes sense if it didn't accept Amex. Do I have it right?

Thinking on it further, I'm not worried about the language in the PIN document as you would only have one PIN for a card, I would think, so it seems more likely that PenFed just uses some standard language in their PIN letters.

As far as I've read, some folks have been able to use the PenFed VISA chip and pin cards in some automated machines in Europe even though they require sig in manned locations, so things have worked in the past.

I'm glad I opted for system generated PIN. We'll find out when I get around to using it.

I expect the signature label just indicates level of service on your card, and is not related to signature only.

Audrey

 

[Alan]

Hi Alan

You said the one time that the car park machine you tried your card in said VISA or MasterCard only, and you had an American Express. And it did tell you invalid card. That makes sense if it didn't accept Amex. Do I have it right?

Correct.

I tried the Penfed VISA twice and the machine just sat there with no message, but when I inserted my Amex CHIP and signature it rejected it with an "Invalid card" message. That told me the machine was reading the card, and was confirmed when my Canadian friend used his VISA card and it prompted for a PIN.

 

[audreyh1]

Correct.

I tried the Penfed VISA twice and the machine just sat there with no message, but when I inserted my Amex CHIP and signature it rejected it with an "Invalid card" message. That told me the machine was reading the card, and was confirmed when my Canadian friend used his VISA card and it prompted for a PIN.

OK - didn't realize you also had a PenFed VISA with chip. But if your PenFed VISA was chip and signature, it probably would not have worked anyway.

Anyway, I think you cleared up my confusion from some of you earlier posts.

 

[Alan]

OK - didn't realize you also had a PenFed VISA with chip. But if your PenFed VISA was chip and signature, it probably would not have worked anyway.

Anyway, I think you cleared up my confusion from some of you earlier posts.

Just to summarize, this is my 3rd "CHIP and PIN" Penfed VISA card since October since the reps and website keep assuring me that they are CHIP and PIN but I've only ever had them work as CHIP and signature. Maybe I am just unlucky.

The following is the last e-mail I received before requesting my last card, the one that has VISA Signature stamped on the front of it.

PenFed Member Service

May 19

Thank you for contacting Pentagon Federal Credit Union.

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you. This
is not a known issue for our Chip/PIN cards. If the PIN you chose is not working
with your PenFed Platinum Visa Signature Card, we can mail you a new system
generated PIN. For security reasons, we cannot accept your request by e-mail.
Please contact a Member Service Representative for assistance at 1 800 247-5626
or 510 376-7328 from a Class A DSN phone line, 7 days a week during the
following hours:

Monday - Friday: 7:00 am to 11:00 pm ET
Saturday - Sunday: 8:00 am to 11:00 pm ET

The representative will verify your security code.


If you need further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely,
Amber Frank
Pentagon Federal Credit Union

 

[braumeister]

Just a quick note to update. I have two cards with chips:
a Visa from Andrews Federal Credit Union, and
a MasterCard from USAA Federal Savings Bank.

I've been looking forward to putting them through their paces. Just spent a few days in Iceland and then some days in Belgium.

The USAA MasterCard always functioned as a true chip & PIN card.

The Visa was schizophrenic about it. In unattended kiosks such as ticket machines in train stations, it was simply a true chip & PIN card. But when there was human interaction such as in a shop when buying something, it asked for a signature.

Of course my regular swipe ATM card was fine for getting local cash from machines.

 

[explanade]

USAA is US military or family of military?

 

[braumeister]

USAA is US military or family of military?

No, that is just their insurance.
Anyone can open a bank account.

 

[Alan]

Just a quick note to update. I have two cards with chips:
a Visa from Andrews Federal Credit Union, and
a MasterCard from USAA Federal Savings Bank.

I've been looking forward to putting them through their paces. Just spent a few days in Iceland and then some days in Belgium.

The USAA MasterCard always functioned as a true chip & PIN card.

The Visa was schizophrenic about it. In unattended kiosks such as ticket machines in train stations, it was simply a true chip & PIN card. But when there was human interaction such as in a shop when buying something, it asked for a signature.

Of course my regular swipe ATM card was fine for getting local cash from machines.

Good feedback, especially regarding the ATM's working with swipe cards.

 

[audreyh1]

Just a quick note to update. I have two cards with chips:
a Visa from Andrews Federal Credit Union, and
a MasterCard from USAA Federal Savings Bank.

I've been looking forward to putting them through their paces. Just spent a few days in Iceland and then some days in Belgium.

The USAA MasterCard always functioned as a true chip & PIN card.

The Visa was schizophrenic about it. In unattended kiosks such as ticket machines in train stations, it was simply a true chip & PIN card. But when there was human interaction such as in a shop when buying something, it asked for a signature.

Of course my regular swipe ATM card was fine for getting local cash from machines.

The VISA is just showing its signature priority configuration. It only asks for a PIN if used in an unattended location. Most US chip and PIN cards are set up this way.

 

[EasyAsianFrog]

No, that is just their insurance.
Anyone can open a bank account.

I just tried to apply for the USAA World Master Card, and was informed that credit cards are only available for military affiliates or family members of USAA insurance customers.

Sent from my DROID4 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[explanade]

You'd think the banks would issue chip and PIN if their US card holders travel to foreign countries and found anything other than chip and PIN isn't accepted.

 

[FIREd]

I was on the USAA site yesterday and they said they would be replacing card with chip and pin, starting 2014 and would be complete by 2016. They also said if you were planning a trip to Europe the would replace your card on request now.

Thanks for the info. I usually use the chip and pin card issued by my European bank. But I am worried that my account there might be closed in the future due to FACTA. Since I already bank at USAA, it would be a convenient alternative. I already have a USAA Mastercard, but that card has a fee on foreign transactions. Hopefully their chip and pin card does not.

 

[explanade]

BTW, has anyone found a good ATM card that doesn't impose fees for international ATM withdraws?

I've been using an Etrade card for years and looks like they've started imposing a 1% fee.

 

[gauss]

BTW, has anyone found a good ATM card that doesn't impose fees for international ATM withdraws?

I believe that CapitalOne 360 checking (formerly Ing Direct) allows international ATM withdrawals with no international transaction fee.

-gauss

 

[EasyAsianFrog]

BTW, has anyone found a good ATM card that doesn't impose fees for international ATM withdraws?

I've been using an Etrade card for years and looks like they've started imposing a 1% fee.

Schwab Bank ATM refunds all the ATM fees globally at the end of each month.

 

[NoiseBoy]

On a recent trip to London I used my MasterCard branded ATM card issued by my credit union and I only paid a $1 service fee for using an out of network ATM on each transaction. Mind you, I was using ATMs that advertised "free" withdrawals. I wasn't really sure what that meant, but I was told to expect a 1% hit in addition to the $1 fee, so I feel like those ATM's really were free for me to use.

Note - My ATM card has the MasterCard logo, but no chip and it worked just fine in London.

 

[Chuckanut]

Some banks have a deal with various overseas banks to give reduced or no ATM fees. My bank has a deal with PNB in France for example. But, not all banks have a deal in all countries. Ask your bank or go to their website for a list by country.

 

[kcowan]

All our cards in Canada are equipped with an RFID chip in addition to the smart chip. These allow us to just present the card to the face of the terminal for authorization. It speeds up checkout for small totals. I use it for totals under $10 instead of cash.

 

[Chuckanut]

FWIW, Chase bank has sent me a letter saying I will be getting a new card that is 'chip and signature'. So they still have a ways to go to get to chip and pin.

 

[explanade]

I have the Schwab card. Would have to move money into it though.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[braumeister]

BTW, has anyone found a good ATM card that doesn't impose fees for international ATM withdraws?

Not the question that was asked (I always use my USAA ATM card to get foreign currency), but I would like to mention that the Andrews FCU Visa chip & pin card has no foreign transaction fee, so I used it extensively on my recent European trip.

Anyone can get the Andrews FCU chip & pin Visa card. You can qualify for membership with a one-time $15 dues payment to the American Consumer Council. Details on the website: https://www.andrewsfcu.org/join_andrews_federal.html

During my trip (two weeks in Iceland and Belgium), I had great results with the Andrews card, so I would recommend it to any of you. No annual fee, no foreign transaction fees, and no hassles. The Andrews website is not exactly state of the art, but their service is excellent, including on phone calls.

 

[explanade]

I use mostly the Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa. No forex fee and bonuses for travel and dining so I use it to pay for airfare, restaurants and hotel bills.

There is a $95 annual fee though.

It's Chip and Signature though there are rumors Chase will convert all their cards to chip and PIN later this year.

I've made it through highway toll booths and train ticket kiosks with the cards I have, which are chip and signature.

Where I would need chip and PIN would be at gas stations. There are a lot of gas stations in Europe which are unmanned and take the chip and PIN cards. Chip and Signature would not work there unless there was people around.

For now, I'm just going to wait it out, hope that the cards I have convert to chip and PIN at some point.

 

[anethum]

It was a pain at times in France recently with my PenFed card which defaulted to requiring a signature. One day I had reserved tickets online for a train trip at a later date, and I couldn't pay with my PenFed Visa card online. I could hold the reservation for 24 hours, and had to find a human ticket seller to complete the transaction within 24 hours. We weren't near a train station while ticket windows were open until just a few minutes were left before the reservation expired. A co-worker had to explain to the clerk how to handle an American credit card. The transaction was completed with literally 1 minute left before I lost the reservation.

A few times, I had to tell folks that I needed to sign their copy of the receipt. They saw the chip on the card and assumed no signature was required.

I bought a French SIM card for my unlocked phone when I arrived, but I couldn't load time online with my US credit card. I had to find a shop which could do it, and I paid the shop.

 

[audreyh1]

It was a pain at times in France recently with my PenFed card which defaulted to requiring a signature. One day I had reserved tickets online for a train trip at a later date, and I couldn't pay with my PenFed Visa card online. I could hold the reservation for 24 hours, and had to find a human ticket seller to complete the transaction within 24 hours. We weren't near a train station while ticket windows were open until just a few minutes were left before the reservation expired. A co-worker had to explain to the clerk how to handle an American credit card. The transaction was completed with literally 1 minute left before I lost the reservation.

A few times, I had to tell folks that I needed to sign their copy of the receipt. They saw the chip on the card and assumed no signature was required.

I bought a French SIM card for my unlocked phone when I arrived, but I couldn't load time online with my US credit card. I had to find a shop which could do it, and I paid the shop.

I wonder how much of your issues had to do with it being a non-French* bank issued card. As far as I know the PIN is not used in online transactions.

*or perhaps France, Benelux, Germany, or other trusted Euro nation.

 

[Alan]

It was a pain at times in France recently with my PenFed card which defaulted to requiring a signature. One day I had reserved tickets online for a train trip at a later date, and I couldn't pay with my PenFed Visa card online. I could hold the reservation for 24 hours, and had to find a human ticket seller to complete the transaction within 24 hours. We weren't near a train station while ticket windows were open until just a few minutes were left before the reservation expired. A co-worker had to explain to the clerk how to handle an American credit card. The transaction was completed with literally 1 minute left before I lost the reservation.

A few times, I had to tell folks that I needed to sign their copy of the receipt. They saw the chip on the card and assumed no signature was required.

I bought a French SIM card for my unlocked phone when I arrived, but I couldn't load time online with my US credit card. I had to find a shop which could do it, and I paid the shop.

Thanks for the update, and much as I feared. Several times in Canada I had to tell folks that I needed to sign, because like good service people they look away once you plug your card into the machine and don't notice that you haven't entered a PIN.

I don't ever recall having to enter a PIN online with my UK CHIP and PIN card, although most sites in the UK require me to enter the verified by VISA password that I set up through the bank.