Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade I haven't ridden the trains in Spain too much but in other European countries, you definitely want chip and PIN for the kiosks, which have much shorter lines than waiting for the ticket counter. And I wouldn't assume they have NFC for Apple Pay. The other use case is gas stations, which are often unmanned. If it's an older gas station, not likely to have NFC either. Definitely good to have a backup. I have First Tech Credit Union card. Their website is a hassle for paying off the card but no fee so I deal with it.

The Schwab debit card works fine for buying tickets at a machine.

I actually bought my Spain train tickets online through Loco2.com and had the hotel print them for me. That was more convenient.

The longer distance or high speed tickets for transfers between cities I had bought ahead anyway and printed at home.

[explanade]

I hate signing.

Use Apple Pay whenever I can. Fortunately, more and more places in Europe have NFC.

[explanade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 The Schwab debit card works fine for this. I actually bought my Spain train tickets online through Loco2.com and had the hotel print them for me. That was more convenient. The longer distance or high speed tickets for transfers between cities I had bought ahead anyway and printed at home.

Yeah but you don't get points for using the Schwab card.

[EveryLady]

We're usually in Europe for 5 to 6 weeks each summer, now just returned from Greece and various Balkan countries. For the last couple of years I've carried the Bank of America Travel Rewards card (no annual fee, a true chip-and-pin card) but never needed to use it.

For most metros, the Chase Sapphire chip-and-signature card continues to work fine (default to no signature required) ... in the past, whenever there was a periodic problem with train tickets, an AMEX that we no longer have did the trick. This trip there often was no pre-purchase of train tickets possible either online or in ticket machines. Counter-only with some still hand-written.

The Charles Schwab debit card is our default card for withdrawing cash and so I'd probably be loathe to overuse it in other machines for fear it might be captured.

Good to have multiple back-ups. The one odd wrinkle this time was that for some reason Eurobank did not recognize the Charles Schwab high-yield checking account. There wasn't even an option for a checking account withdrawal through Eurobank but only from "savings accounts." No problem with other local banks.

So you never know ...

[Sojourner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade The other use case is gas stations, which are often unmanned. If it's an older gas station, not likely to have NFC either. Definitely good to have a backup. I have First Tech Credit Union card. Their website is a hassle for paying off the card but no fee so I deal with it.

I've been looking at the First Tech cards, and it seems like all their MasterCards are true chip-and-PIN. Since I'll be driving a lot, it would be nice to have a card that works seamlessly at most gas stations, so I'm tempted to get one of these cards just for that reason. However, could I just as easily use my Schwab debit card -- which is definitely a chip, but does it have PIN priority? I'm not concerned about losing a few rewards points or small amounts of "cash back" in these kinds of situations by using a debit card instead of a rewards credit card. I just want to minimize the hassle of actually making these purchases while traveling overseas.

[braumeister]

Whether the Schwab debit card would work everywhere is unknowable, but a number of us here have the First Tech MC and we like it.

Most convenient in restaurants where the waiter brings the machine to your table and you just enter your PIN like any European would do. Occasionally you'll run into a server at a small cafe who will be flummoxed when the machine spits out a piece of paper for you to sign -- he may not even have a pen for you to use. Occasions like that make the card very worthwhile IMHO.

[explanade]

I never tried my Schwab card for gas. Only use it for cash and I don't keep that much money in the checking account tied to it.

I guess it would work. It's a Visa debit card so would it have the same protections as Visa credit cards? I don't know.

In the US, credit card skimmers installed at gas stations is a problem. I don't know if it's a problem in Europe but the chip should have it more difficult to skim.

[EveryLady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totoro Just make sure if it offers you a choice between local and USD currency ("for your convenience") to select the local one. The conversion is a rip-off.

It's only this year we've run into this. Once in Nicaragua where for some reason I used a card instead of paying the cash I preferred for that country at a restaurant. There was a major "up-sell" spiel from the waiter with subsequent annoyance at a refusal. Bummer way to end a meal.

Of more concern though was Greece. Jewelry store. We buy very little as a rule but this time made two purchases about an hour apart in two separate stores. In one the "choice" was quite obvious; on the other machine much less so. Both times, I selected Euros but one of the charges came back pre-converted to dollars at a cost of about $12 on a purchase of about $150.

"Final" selection was prominently written on the charge slip (reviewed once home).

My bad for not checking the slip in the store though I'm not sure what "proof" I would have had that I made the correct selection.

Since these were the only two jewelry purchases, I'm positive that it wasn't a charge where the conversion option somehow slipped by me.

The one machine was set up to provide a choice; the other automatically converted to USD unless you chose override. Guess that didn't happen.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner I've been looking at the First Tech cards, and it seems like all their MasterCards are true chip-and-PIN. Since I'll be driving a lot, it would be nice to have a card that works seamlessly at most gas stations, so I'm tempted to get one of these cards just for that reason. However, could I just as easily use my Schwab debit card -- which is definitely a chip, but does it have PIN priority? I'm not concerned about losing a few rewards points or small amounts of "cash back" in these kinds of situations by using a debit card instead of a rewards credit card. I just want to minimize the hassle of actually making these purchases while traveling overseas.

Yes, the First Tech card works very well, and is very convenient.

The Schwab debit card is PIN only - there is no signature option.

I never use the Schwab or Fidelity debit card at POS terminals like in a store, I’ve only used it occasionally (more of a backup) at a transportation ticket machine (besides the ATM). In France the train ticket machines were funny about US credit cards.*

We did run into many EUR versus USD options in Spain at restaurants, hotels and shops. You really had to pay attention.

*Interestingly, the French train ticket machine never asked me for a PIN, so I didn’t have to worry about my debit card PIN being compromised. I’m sure there was some € limit to what could be purchased.

[Alan]

We just returned from a 2 week cruise around Norway and even the smallest of places accepted smart phones and/or contactless cards, including market stalls.

On day 1 I withdrew 200 NOK (=$25) just to have a bit of cash in case I needed it for something. We ended up spending money in the last place we visited (Bergen).

[tulak]

+1 for the FirstTech card.

We’re in France right now and I’ve used it everywhere without any problems. This includes both getting gas at an automated pump and paying at the tollways. At the tollways, you don’t get asked for a PIN.

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 Yes, you’ll be fine. Your Schwab debit card will even work in an automated ticket machine if you get in a bind. It’s a true “PIN” card in that respect. We used our Costco chip and sig credit card for hotels and fancy restaurants due to the new no foreign exchange fee and 3% cash back. And our First Tech VISA true PIN card otherwise for the convenience. It’s very convenient to have a true PIN card to travel with in Europe, but not a stumbling block. Recently returned from 3 weeks in Spain. Carry a pen with you for use in restaurants.

+1 What Audrey said.

[BigNick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tulak At the tollways, you don’t get asked for a PIN.

This is to save time. The machine just reads the card information (from the magnetic strip, ironically) and the toll company debits your account once per 24 hours for all the trips you made that day.

If your card turns out to be no good then I suspect they write it off, although I guess they could spend some time looking through the security camera records and chase you up for it afterwards.

[BigNick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner Spain is my primary destination, and I'll be taking a couple of standard "chip and signature" cards along with my Schwab ATM/debit card for cash withdrawals. Will this be good enough to make my trip (almost) entirely hassle-free in terms of paying for things, or should I go through the extra effort of getting a true chip-and-PIN card?

Here's something that will happen in Spain, which seems to be unique to that country. For purchases of up to 20 Euros, Spanish people pay contactless - just tap the card on the reader. For amounts between 20 and 100 Euros, they tap the machine and then enter the PIN. Over 100 Euros, they have to insert the machine into the reader and enter the PIN.

In almost every other European country, there are only two options. Up to 20 or 30 Euros, contactless with no PIN; above that, insert the card into the machine and use the PIN.

Only Spain seems to have this "tap and PIN" system, and only Spanish card work with it. So what I can guarantee will happen a few times on your trip is this. Say the check for lunch comes to 35 Euros. The server will take your card (they prefer to do this because they think that they are better at tapping it on the machine than you) and tap it on their little machine, then hand the machine for you to enter your PIN. But on the screen will be an error message, because your card doesn't work the Spanish way (neither do French or Dutch or UK cards --- this is nothing to do with having an American card) and doesn't allow you to initiate a contactless-and-PIN transaction for this amount. The server will look slightly baffled and try again, with the same results. On the third attempt they will put the card in the machine, and it will work (whether or not you have a PIN to enter). You can smile politely and say "Es una tarjeta extranjera", and the server will go "Ahhhh, si".

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigNick Here's something that will happen in Spain, which seems to be unique to that country. For purchases of up to 20 Euros, Spanish people pay contactless - just tap the card on the reader. For amounts between 20 and 100 Euros, they tap the machine and then enter the PIN. Over 100 Euros, they have to insert the machine into the reader and enter the PIN. In almost every other European country, there are only two options. Up to 20 or 30 Euros, contactless with no PIN; above that, insert the card into the machine and use the PIN. Only Spain seems to have this "tap and PIN" system, and only Spanish card work with it. So what I can guarantee will happen a few times on your trip is this. Say the check for lunch comes to 35 Euros. The server will take your card (they prefer to do this because they think that they are better at tapping it on the machine than you) and tap it on their little machine, then hand the machine for you to enter your PIN. But on the screen will be an error message, because your card doesn't work the Spanish way (neither do French or Dutch or UK cards --- this is nothing to do with having an American card) and doesn't allow you to initiate a contactless-and-PIN transaction for this amount. The server will look slightly baffled and try again, with the same results. On the third attempt they will put the card in the machine, and it will work (whether or not you have a PIN to enter). You can smile politely and say "Es una tarjeta extranjera", and the server will go "Ahhhh, si".

Didn’t have this happen. Maybe because it was already obvious that we were extranjeros.

[explanade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigNick Here's something that will happen in Spain, which seems to be unique to that country. For purchases of up to 20 Euros, Spanish people pay contactless - just tap the card on the reader. For amounts between 20 and 100 Euros, they tap the machine and then enter the PIN. Over 100 Euros, they have to insert the machine into the reader and enter the PIN. In almost every other European country, there are only two options. Up to 20 or 30 Euros, contactless with no PIN; above that, insert the card into the machine and use the PIN. Only Spain seems to have this "tap and PIN" system, and only Spanish card work with it. So what I can guarantee will happen a few times on your trip is this. Say the check for lunch comes to 35 Euros. The server will take your card (they prefer to do this because they think that they are better at tapping it on the machine than you) and tap it on their little machine, then hand the machine for you to enter your PIN. But on the screen will be an error message, because your card doesn't work the Spanish way (neither do French or Dutch or UK cards --- this is nothing to do with having an American card) and doesn't allow you to initiate a contactless-and-PIN transaction for this amount. The server will look slightly baffled and try again, with the same results. On the third attempt they will put the card in the machine, and it will work (whether or not you have a PIN to enter). You can smile politely and say "Es una tarjeta extranjera", and the server will go "Ahhhh, si".

Went to Spain last year, paid for an apartment using Apple Pay. They charged several hundred Euros. All it took was my fingerprint on my iPhone.

[braumeister]

Interesting event recently. During our stay in Scotland last week I tried to get cash with my trusty Schwab debit card. That has never failed me during so many European trips, but it was rejected repeatedly last week. After the fourth bank snubbed it, I called Schwab and they were as mystified as I was. After about 15 minutes on the phone with them, they said it must be a problem in the Visa system and they would get it fixed. Two days later it was just the same and I spent another 20 minutes with them.

Finally, they decided that the chip in my card must have failed somehow.
Well, duh! Slapping myself on the forehead, we tried DW’s card and it worked perfectly. So that confirmed the bad chip theory.

Received a new card today in London to replace my bad one, so that’s sorted. But something for all of us to be aware of. I had another card I could use but I just love that Schwab card for “free” foreign cash.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister Interesting event recently. During our stay in Scotland last week I tried to get cash with my trusty Schwab debit card. That has never failed me during so many European trips, but it was rejected repeatedly last week. After the fourth bank snubbed it, I called Schwab and they were as mystified as I was. After about 15 minutes on the phone with them, they said it must be a problem in the Visa system and they would get it fixed. Two days later it was just the same and I spent another 20 minutes with them. Finally, they decided that the chip in my card must have failed somehow. Well, duh! Slapping myself on the forehead, we tried DW’s card and it worked perfectly. So that confirmed the bad chip theory. Received a new card today in London to replace my bad one, so that’s sorted. But something for all of us to be aware of. I had another card I could use but I just love that Schwab card for “free” foreign cash.

I’ve heard that haggis can corrode the chip on those cards so maybe keep it in a sealed plastic bag while traveling in Scotland

[braumeister]

We ate quite a bit of haggis while there. DW and I both like it. Didn’t seem too corrosive, but you never know...

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister We ate quite a bit of haggis while there. DW and I both like it. Didn’t seem too corrosive, but you never know...

When we lived in Scotland (Dumfries) our local fish and chip shop used to sell deep fried battered haggis and chips. The canteen at work always had fried haggis as an option on the breakfast menu. Talk about living in heartburn city. (I liked haggis and ate way too much of it).