College Selection

[Spanky]

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Originally Posted by BarbaraAnne Texas universities have tuition and fees. The numbers you are quoting for in-state tuition are only the tuition part. The fees are about equal to the tuition. Therefore for a year of in-state tuition and fees is over $8K. Out-of-state is much higher also when fees are added.

You are right. I was mistaken. The flat tuition rate (tuition and misc fees) is $4,216 (in-state) and $11,031 (out-of-state) per semester. The amounts will be 2x for one year.

[eridanus]

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Originally Posted by Spanky Many students complain about the lack of class offering to graduate within 4 years.

For some students, this is a GOOD thing. Delaying entering the workforce on the parental dime...ahh yeah. 8)

[mb]

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Originally Posted by Grep Engineering, for example, is a field where she will absolutely want to go on for a Masters, at least.

Interesting, when I graduated I viewed an MS as sort of "no man's land" as far as employment opportunities. A BS engineer with a good GPA and some undergrad research could pretty much get any job that an MS could get whereas some jobs required a Ph.D. and they would not settle for an MS. The argument for an MS was that you either wanted to delay going into the real world a little longer or wanted to learn just a little more.

In my field (Ch.E.) Minnesota, Wisconsin and Berkeley are usually ranked equal or higher than Cal Tech although a lot of that is the size of the departments. They are all easily top 10. They definitely have different cultures. I found grad school at Berkeley to be kind of "laid back." While in grad school a professor returned from a sabbatical at Minnesota and reported that he thought that grad students at Minnesota worked harder than those at Berkeley. The grad student reaction was either "FU" or, "DUH, they're in Minnesota and we're in California! Maybe there is a reason why they do nothing but work!"

Strongly agree with the poster that the prestige of the grad school is much more important than that of the undergrad.

MB

[Mr._johngalt]

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Originally Posted by 2B I'll second most of what Leonidas said but.... Companies are very interested in GPAs. Some are very snobbish about the school but it isn't always the "big names." If some VP "likes" the grads from ol' Bugtussle U, they get favored. I've recruited and hired numerous new grads for the oil and chemical business. I can assure you there is no correlation between school and career success. Some schools may get a very small hiring premium for their new grads but it disappears after two years on the job. I have personally not seen any school produce "better" graduates. I will say that MIT produces a high percentage of grads who think they are smarter than God. Some of them have trouble buttoning their shirts. I've paid for two kids to go to Texas A&M's College of Engineering. They were told that they could go to UT or A&M or they better have a pretty good story. I don't see a "value" in dropping big money to go to an expensive, prestigeous college or paying out of state tuition when high quality in state tuition is available. The high priced alternatives won't return the "value" for the extra cost to your child. I know a lot of people that did drop big money to send their kids to name schools and I never saw it get paid back in any form other than their ability to say "my son went to Rice." BFD. Save the money for grad school. The nice thing about that is that anywhere an engineer goes for grad school will be paid for with TA positions -- not including an MBA.

I agree "most" companies seem more interested in the GPA than the school.
Note I said most.

BTW, I have actually been to Bugtussle, Texas.

JG

[Callie]

I don't know which schools are better than others, but RPI offered a 100% scholarship to a family friend as they want more women in sciences. she grabbed this.

http://www.rpi.edu/

Our first in college is an English major at high cost liberal arts school in New England. all girls - she is already compaining about no boys.....

[audreyh1]

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Originally Posted by Spanky I am pleasantly suprised that both of these schools (UT or Texas A&M) have very low in-state tuition (less than $5K) and out of state tuition is only $11K compared to $18 - 20K for other schools of U of california and big-10 universities. Both schools offer a lot of merit scholarships that waive tuition for all four years plus $2000 per year for room and board. I wonder how do they afford that when Texas does not collect income tax.

The Texas University System (including UT, A&M, and a few others) owns oil producing properties which contribute to a monster fund that pays for all infrastructure, buildings etc. This means that only part of the cost of the system is paid for by the state (salaries, etc.).

Audrey

[justin]

Don't know about other state's top notch schools, but I checked Univ. of NC and North Carolina State Univ. for their undergrad tuition rates and fees. Totals come in right around $5k/yr for in state (UNC might have been a few hundred more than NCSU). Pretty sweet deal for those able to take advantage. Plenty of jobs straight out of college from either place (if you pick one of the "correct" majors) for $40-50k+.

[jazz4cash]

I am currently going thru this also. I have one daughter graduating high school and another graduating college, so I think my perspective is fresh. Unfortunately, I am so damn skeptical about the process and our options, that it is not as much fun as it should be. I feel cheated by the in-state oppourtunities as in-state tuition has risen 40% in the last five years and is now comparable to out of state in other areas. I think the most important thing is to find an atmosphere that has the right fit for your child.........there will be many that fit the bill, but finding "the one" is the problem. I would be very surprised if she could not get a nice merit scholorship with her credentials, but the key is finding a school that wants/needs your kid.....usually a school that is less popular, but well regarded in her selected field. If shes interested in CE, that should be no prolem as there are many good choices public and private. Work-study and/ or intern oppourtunities in these areas tend to be very good if relevent to thier degree area, so inquire about them. Also, you should apply early and if you get a merit offer, some "competitive" schools may attempt to match. I only wish my kids were interested in technical fields, but it's not thier thing and daughter #2 is very focused on elementary education. Congratulations to you and your daughter, and glad to hear you are enjoying the process!...........hearing your story helps me stay rational. Keep us posted on your progress.

[justin]

My thoughts on engineering undergrad at large state univ - scholarships were hard to come by for entering freshmen unless you were top notch. Once you are in, there seemed to be foundations, institutes, societies, honorary fraternities, research programs, assistanceships, etc. that were throwing around grants, scholarships, and research assistanceships constantly. I think I managed to get 12+ of these for $1000 to $10000 each during years 2-3 of undergrad (no year 4 for me).

There were so many where the departmental scholarship coordinator went seeking applicants just so the money wouldn't go unspent. Frequently, there would be 1-3 applicants for a $1000 or $2000 scholarship/grant. I still get the emails from the college chapter of our professional society seeking applicants for 6 scholarships where they have only received 1 application total.

I guess it depends on where you attend school and the strength of the program. A few $1-2k scholarships can easily cover in state tuition at a lot of schools.

There is money out there, even for "ok" students. Plus, count on a decent summer job or coop experience paying decent salary well above minimum wage.

[Nords]

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Originally Posted by jazz4cash I think the most important thing is to find an atmosphere that has the right fit for your child.........there will be many that fit the bill, but finding "the one" is the problem. I would be very surprised if she could not get a nice merit scholorship with her credentials, but the key is finding a school that wants/needs your kid.....usually a school that is less popular, but well regarded in her selected field.

We made the mistake of showing our 9th-grader around the U.S. Naval Academy, so now "everything else is just another school". We think that we're going to end up planning most of our family vacations over the next three years around college visits to smaller engineering schools. It's up to her to find herself a new home, because it's not going to be her old home!

I like the RPI idea over Cal Tech... 5000 students is a lot smaller population to work with.

[Spanky]

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Originally Posted by justin Don't know about other state's top notch schools, but I checked Univ. of NC and North Carolina State Univ. for their undergrad tuition rates and fees. Totals come in right around $5k/yr for in state (UNC might have been a few hundred more than NCSU). Pretty sweet deal for those able to take advantage. Plenty of jobs straight out of college from either place (if you pick one of the "correct" majors) for $40-50k+.

UNC is a great deal - low tuition and highly regarded. Most in-state tuition rate is $9K and 2x for out-of-state.

[justin]

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Originally Posted by Spanky UNC is a great deal - low tuition and highly regarded. Most in-state tuition rate is $9K and 2x for out-of-state.

Yep - I took advantage of law school there. "Only" $10k/yr when I graduated in '04. It was only $5k/yr in 2000 when I was shopping for schools. I think they are up to $12k/yr now for new students.

The UNC System board has proposed limiting future tuition increases to "only" 6.5% per year. :

[astromeria]

Rice is well endowed with oil money so, although a private school, it costs about the same as the great public universities. Rice freezes a student's annual tuition so it remains the same for all 4 years (at least they did that when my daughter was there).

[2B]

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Originally Posted by astromeria My daughter went to Rice

BFD

Rice is a good school. It's about twice the cost of TAMU or UT but for Ivy League it's a super bargain. Being cheap beyond belief, I wasn't going to encourage my son (who, unlike my daughter, had the SAT to apply) unless there was some program that really made a difference. Like I said before, the salaries and success rate don't seem to be any different between solid state schools and the name universities.

One place I think the name does pay off is Harvard or Princeton Law and the few top tier MBA mills. Doing well in the University of Houston MBA program doesn't really get you in the fast track investment banking scene.

[justin]

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Originally Posted by 2B One place I think the name does pay off is Harvard or Princeton Law and the few top tier MBA mills. Doing well in the University of Houston MBA program doesn't really get you in the fast track investment banking scene.

Princeton Law? I assume you meant Yale? Cause Princeton doesn't have a law school. But a harvard/yale JD will open many doors that wouldn't open otherwise.

[2B]

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Originally Posted by justin Princeton Law? I assume you meant Yale? Cause Princeton doesn't have a law school. But a harvard/yale JD will open many doors that wouldn't open otherwise.

I'm glad to be corrected. I avoid lawyers when possible. Now if Princeton had a law school, I bet they'd get top dollar just on the name.

[CybrMike]

This is ambitious Secure Retirement is working for the government? IMHO, being ambitious for your child is NOT hoping that they end up working at some cush government job as a civil engineer. You guys must be pretty jaded to think that this is the "best outcome".

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Originally Posted by HaHa I am always amazed to see so many people who are so unambitious for themselves become so ambitious for their children. If the goal of life is retirement, and for many it appears to be, why not take the shortest cheapest route to a secure retirement? For a female, seems like there must be places in the Federal for, say, a civil engineer. Job security for an engineer in industry seems roughly comparable to that of a waitress. The only thing I can imagine that would amortize any Ivy price bachelor's degree would be Wall Street. And even there, it might be necessary to add another $100,000+ to attend a top tier law or business school. Plus, at these schools a child will either have to hang around with unbelievable geeks or (at the Ivies) incredible egomaniacs. Ha

[Brat]

Excuse me, but there are damn few cushy government jobs out there. Just as in private industry there are slackers. In both cases that is the result of poor managers.

Today civil engineering is often outsourced because public employers can't retain them. As cities and counties attempt to manage their expenses it is often more cost effective to use professional services contracts. Hot issue in my town after loosing both public works engineers within a year.

Same is happening in building departments. Plan checking is driven by construction activity. Often it is better to outsource the specialty checking (structural, for example) than keep it in-house.

[Nords]

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Originally Posted by CybrMike This is ambitious Secure Retirement is working for the government?

Think about that sentence, Mike-- a government retirement check is probably the gold standard of "secure retirement". That's just a fact because I think the PBGC has had to take over zero govt pension systems.

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Originally Posted by CybrMike IMHO, being ambitious for your child is NOT hoping that they end up working at some cush government job as a civil engineer. You guys must be pretty jaded to think that this is the "best outcome".

So, a few bad apples means that govt workers aren't ambitious? Some of them are trying to fix society while others are just using the job to pay their bills while they're pursuing their "real" interests.

Look at the odds of an entrepreneur succeeding in a winner-take-all industry and compare it to the number of govt workers with secure futures. Gosh, it looks like a higher percentage of govt workers actually have more secure futures than an equivalent population of entrepreneurs. (That might explain why govt salaries are lower and entrpreneurial salaries are higher, in direct proportion to the likelihood of being unemployed.) So maybe for the bigger group of people, employment security is the "best outcome".

I don't see anything wrong with a kid who wants to build a state highway or teach high-school science or work with disadvantaged people. Those are all govt jobs around here, and there's nothing jaded about my outlook.

[Spanky]

In retrospect, I would have retired with a nice pension by now if I had worked for the government. The notion that government jobs are unchalleging and that only unambitious people work for the government is overly generalized or unfounded.