College Update

[stephenandrew]

A while back I had posted regarding my son's college search. He finally made his decision---looks like he will be heading to a small liberal arts college in the midwest. I think academically, socially, politically, etc the school is a good match. As far as the audience on this Board is concerned though, I was posting regarding the finances. If he had gone to State U, his projected 4 year tuition, room/board, and misc. fees (after merit scholarships) would have totaled about $32,000. The cost to go to his chosen school is about $102,000. Yeah, its a big difference---but I do think this is a better place for him (because of who he is) than State U. I offered to give him the difference in tuition (after college graduation--I'm not completely stupid) if he had gone to State U, but he turned that offer down. I'm glad he finally made his decision.

[Spanky]

It's totally a personal choice. A saving of nearly $80K invested can provide an excellent start toward retirement.

[LOL!]

Thanks for the update. My kid will be visiting some schools this month to help her decide. All the schools cost about the same amount though, so it is not a financial decision for her or us.

[xyz]

My three children are done with university but looking back the most important thing was that they followed their passion. All three are now in careers they are happy with. Hmmm cost was irrelevant ... I view my children as one of my greatest successes.

[Animorph]

A little off topic, my son just decided to go to a state college (out of our state) that says the state owes them $480M already. Maybe we should also be considering the financial stability of our choices these days! While it's top rated for his major now, it may not be able to hold that quality for the four or five years he's there.

[LOL!]

I have read that some folks in the U of California system cannot always enroll in the courses they are required to take in order to graduate, so that it may take more than 4 years to graduate. That will add to the costs.

[Spanky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOL! I have read that some folks in the U of California system cannot always enroll in the courses they are required to take in order to graduate, so that it may take more than 4 years to graduate. That will add to the costs.

That's not unique to UC - other universities exhibit the same issue. Finishing in 5 years is not unusual.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xyz Hmmm cost was irrelevant ...

I think that if kids go to a college they haven't "bought in to", then in a few months they may be right back in the nest to work shifts at Taco Bell give it the ol' college try some other semester.

But otherwise, no, kids don't see the relevance of their college costs to their parents' retirement plans.

[Spanky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords But otherwise, no, kids don't see the relevance of their college costs to their parents' retirement plans.

In general, I concur. I am fortunate that my daughter does care about my pocketbook. She went to a state U for free instead attending Standford or CalTech.

[Danmar]

It is always great to hear about kids who do well in life. So often we dwell on the losers. Sounds like a lot of people on this forum have super kids. I certainly do! Cost really is secondary when things work out.

[stephenandrew]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords I think that if kids go to a college they haven't "bought in to", then in a few months they may be right back in the nest to work shifts at Taco Bell give it the ol' college try some other semester. But otherwise, no, kids don't see the relevance of their college costs to their parents' retirement plans.

This is sort of related to the above comment---Frankly I was surprised how quickly my son turned down the offer of pocketing the $70,000 difference between the cost of tuition at the two schools if he went to the less expensive school. I totally get why he wants to go to the smaller more expensive college. I really believe that in my son's case, forgeting about money, he is making the right choice. To me, $70K is a lot of coin, and like a poster said above, that sort of nest egg would make a big difference in his life coming out of college---money for a house, funds for graduate school (if he goes), a big start on his retirement funding, etc. I talked with him about all of that---he is a bright kid, but none of those things reslly registered to him. I think it is becasue he is young, and sees all of these things as being off in the future--things he can worry about later. As far as this impacting our retirement, I have been fortunate in that we have been saving for this day since he was born. I am glad I can give him this opportunity without jeapordizing my retirement, or putting him deep in debt. Financially, I think he is making a mistake by going this route, but then not evey decision comes down to making the best financial decision.

[smjsl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar It is always great to hear about kids who do well in life. So often we dwell on the losers. Sounds like a lot of people on this forum have super kids. I certainly do! Cost really is secondary when things work out.

Danmar, I thought you lived in Canada... Then, when it comes to costs of schools and healthcare, you don't count ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spanky In general, I concur. I am fortunate that my daughter does care about my pocketbook. She went to a state U for free instead attending Standford or CalTech.

By not going to Stanford/CalTech, she probably did not lose much if she went to Berkley.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephenandrew A while back I had posted regarding my son's college search. He finally made his decision---looks like he will be heading to a small liberal arts college in the midwest. I think academically, socially, politically, etc the school is a good match.

Socially? Politically? Could you elaborate? I am curious because I never considered such factors in the past and not sure why they would matter.

[Spanky]

Quote:

I totally get why he wants to go to the smaller more expensive college. I really believe that in my son's case, forgeting about money, he is making the right choice.

Your son is fortunate to have a supportive parent like you.

[Spanky]

Quote:

By not going to Stanford/CalTech, she probably did not lose much if she went to Berkley.

True, if that's case.
Anyway, her plan is to get into Stanford or UC Berkely for her graduate study. Financially, she is doing quite well as she has been working for a local energy utility company as an engineering intern part-time and full-time during the summers. She saves nearly all her earnings into an investment account and the company's 401K plan.

[stephenandrew]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smjsl Socially? Politically? Could you elaborate? I am curious because I never considered such factors in the past and not sure why they would matter.

The school he is planning to go to emphasizes social action/social justice as part of the program. A relatively large part of their coursework takes place outside the classroom working at places like Legal Aid, City-Run Hospitals. You can probably find this at a lot of schools, but this seems to be a pretyy major emphasis here. He is "into" that sort of thing, so it seems a good match in that regard. The student body is diverse--at State U, something like 85% of the kids are from our home state. At the school he is going to, whihc is out of state, more than half the kids come from out of state, and a decent portion (10% I think) are from overseas. He likes the idea of being in a more diverse community--one that is not so homogeneous. He seems to think, and I concur, that the political orientation of the student body is more liberal there than at State U. Again, his own political leanings are more to the left, and I think he liked having the chance to be part of a "progressive student body" (my words not his). I think he can get a good education at either institution, but I can understand as his parent that he feels he "fits" better at the smaller school.

[smjsl]

@Spanky: good plan! Grad school certainly matters way more than undergrad; so as long as she gets into one of those, she is all set and saving a lot of money along the way.

@stephenandrew: thanks for explanation

[DivinDave]

Ultimately once you have landed the first job, no one looks at what university or college you graduated from.

[smjsl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivinDave Ultimately once you have landed the first job, no one looks at what university or college you graduated from.

I think this might be a common misconception... Or at least when I interview people, it certainly makes a difference to me whether someone is coming from MIT or a tier-3 school, even after they worked 3, 5, or even 10 years in the industry... but it's true that beyond that, experience starts to weigh in more in my judgment.. still, all else being equal, your education could be a deciding factor. I wonder what (current and former) managers on this forum experienced in this regard.

Regardless of the above point, what I learned is that landing that first job depends a LOT on which school you are coming from. (Some places will not even consider you if you are not coming from a tier-1 school.)

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivinDave Ultimately once you have landed the first job, no one looks at what university or college you graduated from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smjsl Regardless of the above point, what I learned is that landing that first job depends a LOT on which school you are coming from.

I think college students care more about landing the first job, not so much about the credibility that comes after it. As for tuition expenses: price is what you pay, value is what you get. If a kid doesn't value the place then price is irrelevant.

I think a kid is much more engaged by a campus that seems to offer to engage them-- community activism, student & faculty diversity, work-study or even co-op all sound a lot more interesting than sitting in a 300-seat lecture hall with a TA on the podium while the faculty is busy writing research grant applications. How welcome are the freshmen? How important are the undergrads to the school's overall focus?

The fellow students will make a big difference, too-- a much bigger difference than the reputation of the faculty or the degree. Our kid was acutely aware that one of the nationally-ranked colleges she visited is full of kids with WASP ancestry and significantly fewer kids of Asian/Pacific ancestry than other schools. (Ironically she's of WASP ancestry too but she still felt out of place among a crowd that looked a lot like her.) She didn't appreciate the much higher number of Hawaii/Asian jokes that came her way or the lack of appreciation for foreign cultures. Nothing necessarily racial or prejudiced or wrong about the campus or the students or the experience, just an indication that (alongside the other schools she visited) this one particular place is appears to be quite insulated from the realities of the society she cares to be a member of. Their ignorance did not elevate the level of her bliss.

[Orchidflower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smjsl I think this might be a common misconception... Or at least when I interview people, it certainly makes a difference to me whether someone is coming from MIT or a tier-3 school, even after they worked 3, 5, or even 10 years in the industry... but it's true that beyond that, experience starts to weigh in more in my judgment.. still, all else being equal, your education could be a deciding factor. I wonder what (current and former) managers on this forum experienced in this regard. Regardless of the above point, what I learned is that landing that first job depends a LOT on which school you are coming from. (Some places will not even consider you if you are not coming from a tier-1 school.)

Years ago--when there was Big 8 accounting--I was a headhunter in innercity Chicago (downtown, in fact) primarily for audit staff as that's what Fortune 500 paid gleefully for, since it is a drudge job and the kids are totally burned out by the public accounting firms before they even get to the next corporate job. Some--but certainly not all corporations--wanted someone who not only finished from the U. of Illinois-Champaign/Urbana (considered the primary U. of Il. and not one of the branches), but wanted the auditor-to-be to have passed the CPA exam the FIRST time as second would not do (and I mean all 4 parts of the exam the first time). But this was very, very few of the corporations hiring (usually the Controller of the corporation or the VP of Finance sometimes).
Generally speaking from my experience doing this, most of the corporations weren't that exacting in their requirements. Just someone who graduated from a decent college and had their CPA certification.
For some reason, I remember 3M was one of the pickiest companies out there, as was Disneyworld, both places I made auditor placements at. Funny the little crud you remember...

In sales, the school is definitely of little importance, but the degree certainly is and personality/looks (yes, that is a shallow biz I admit). I assume with engineers where exacting technical skills are needed, they probably fine tooth comb your background. Do they?