Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-16-2012, 11:40 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
grasshopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I was wondering if that was anything like Calvinball.
Note to self Google Calvinball.
__________________

__________________
For me experiences are not good or bad, just different
grasshopper is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-16-2012, 11:45 AM   #22
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B View Post
Ah, THE NUMBER! I could make all sorts of jokes about this but it's a reasonable question worthy of a reasonable answer. Basically, THE NUMBER is an illusion. What you need to know is how much cash flow you need. Using our often used SWR only gives an estimate without knowing what the actual portfolio returns will be. So, the "classical" answer is for your ages is to take your living expenses and divide by O.035 and you will have approximately THE NUMBER you seek. Since you are looking at a future retirement date, THE NUMBER needs to get raised for any expected inflation.
I always get lost when I read about THE NUMBER and especially how younger couples still raising small children can guestimate it.
Living expenses? Is it expenses today or is it estimated expenses in today's dollars after the kids are out, or estimated expenses of the first year in retirement in today's dollars?
And after dividing expenses by 0.035 or 0.4, does the NUMBER still contain the principal to be left behind or will it be used up by the end?
There're threads here in which people express wishes/plans to retire in the forties. I'd say 3.5% is too agressive for them, right?

I sometimes read people talking in future dollars, others in today's dollars, and in the end I'm lost. Maybe by the time I can foresee my retirement I'll figure it out.
__________________

__________________
aida2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 11:51 AM   #23
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper View Post
Note to self Google Calvinball.
Heh -- I thought everyone knew knew Calvinball...

Calvinball - The Calvin and Hobbes Wiki
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 11:53 AM   #24
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa99 View Post
Yet he STILL buys stuff on Amazon using the house account without asking.
Sorry, but IMHO you have much deeper problems as related to money and how it is applied to your joint lifestyle.

I have comments, but I'll withold them (based upon "input" of your postings).

Let's just say, that I wish you well...
__________________
rescueme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 11:53 AM   #25
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa99 View Post
His thought is 'we have plenty of money, what's the big deal'.
To some degree we're like that -- but only up to a point. As long as our saving and investing goals of $X each month are met, I'm happy. Sometimes if we spend less, we'll put in a lot more than $X. If we spend more, it'll be only a little more than $X. For us it's a nice compromise between making sure we are making sufficient progress every month without obsessing over where every dollar went.

YMMV, naturally...
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 12:18 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lisa99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Villages
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by rescueme View Post
Sorry, but IMHO you have much deeper problems as related to money and how it is applied to your joint lifestyle.

I have comments, but I'll withold them (based upon "input" of your postings).

Let's just say, that I wish you well...
I agree that we do have some money issues to work through, but we've been married 22 years and this is a recurring theme in our marriage. His purchases aren't big, but are frequent, so it's not like he's buying big boy toys thank goodness.

The great thing is that we can talk about it without anger. I've shared this entire thread with him and he now fully understands where my discomfort lies.

He's also agreed to start helping with the planning so I'm going to show him how to use Firecalc so he can come up with his own number (under close supervision of course!)
__________________
Learning how to be still, to really be still and let life happen - that stillness becomes a radiance -
Morgan Freeman
Lisa99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 12:22 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lisa99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Villages
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
To some degree we're like that -- but only up to a point. As long as our saving and investing goals of $X each month are met, I'm happy. Sometimes if we spend less, we'll put in a lot more than $X. If we spend more, it'll be only a little more than $X. For us it's a nice compromise between making sure we are making sufficient progress every month without obsessing over where every dollar went.

YMMV, naturally...
We also have a minimum $ amt that we put into investments each year and we've never not met our minimum investment goal.

Since we're meeting our investment goals I sometimes feel like I'm being a nag when I get upset at the small but frequent purchases. HOWEVER, I feel the need to practice living within our defined retirement budget, to make sure the number that we've set is realistic. And right now we're not living within that budget.
__________________
Learning how to be still, to really be still and let life happen - that stillness becomes a radiance -
Morgan Freeman
Lisa99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 12:26 PM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lisa99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Villages
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by aida2003 View Post
I always get lost when I read about THE NUMBER and especially how younger couples still raising small children can guestimate it.
Living expenses? Is it expenses today or is it estimated expenses in today's dollars after the kids are out, or estimated expenses of the first year in retirement in today's dollars?
And after dividing expenses by 0.035 or 0.4, does the NUMBER still contain the principal to be left behind or will it be used up by the end?
There're threads here in which people express wishes/plans to retire in the forties. I'd say 3.5% is too agressive for them, right?

I sometimes read people talking in future dollars, others in today's dollars, and in the end I'm lost. Maybe by the time I can foresee my retirement I'll figure it out.
I guess I'm a simpleton. Our retirement budget is in today's dollars as is the "NUMBER" needed to retire. We do not plan to leave an estate but plan to never go below $xx in the investement accounts.

All of this I can easily model in Firecalc. When I start hearing future dollars, today's dollars my head starts spinning and I just want to go play pickleball
__________________
Learning how to be still, to really be still and let life happen - that stillness becomes a radiance -
Morgan Freeman
Lisa99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 12:27 PM   #29
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa99 View Post
Since we're meeting our investment goals I sometimes feel like I'm being a nag when I get upset at the small but frequent purchases. HOWEVER, I feel the need to practice living within our defined retirement budget, to make sure the number that we've set is realistic. And right now we're not living within that budget.
Oh, I totally agree with that. Retirement -- or my semi-retirement at minimum -- is far enough away that we haven't started the "live within those means" test (for at least my semi-retirement I think we pretty much are except for losing my Megacorp health insurance). As of now, as long as our monthly goals are nearly always met (and usually exceeded), I decided to let the small stuff go as an investment in "domestic tranquility" as well as trying to balance consideration with enjoying our longer term future (retirement) and with enjoying the present day.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 12:31 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lisa99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Villages
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Oh, I totally agree with that. Retirement -- or my semi-retirement at minimum -- is far enough away that we haven't started the "live within those means" test (for at least my semi-retirement I think we pretty much are except for losing my Megacorp health insurance). As of now, as long as our monthly goals are nearly always met (and usually exceeded), I decided to let the small stuff go as an investment in "domestic tranquility" as well as trying to balance consideration with enjoying our longer term future (retirement) and with enjoying the present day.
That's a great attitude re: enjoying the present. We make that a priority as well and have a hefty budget today for travel and entertainment.

This thread sounds like we have ongoing battles with money. We actually don't. What this thread did do was help me clarify the reason for my discomfort and it is about spending. So now we can work on it together.
__________________
Learning how to be still, to really be still and let life happen - that stillness becomes a radiance -
Morgan Freeman
Lisa99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 12:46 PM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa99 View Post
Funny, we do this today. We each get XX/month that goes into a separate checking acct to be spent as we wish.

Yet he STILL buys stuff on Amazon using the house account without asking. I raise cain periodically, he stops for awhile then starts up again. His thought is 'we have plenty of money, what's the big deal'.

I shared this thread with him yesterday and he now understands what the big deal is. Until he gets his shopping addiction under control I'm not comfortable retiring.
It seems to me that there needs to be a budget for the Amazon items that will meet what he likes to spend on or he will become miserable in retirement. To expect this activity to cease with mere reflection of his spending habits is unlikely and will be a continued source of friction.

I would budget a recurring purchase of gift cards to be directly applied to the Amazon account based on a typical years expenses so that he could see what his balance is and buy whatever with that money.

I have a similar situation with spending of near $7,000 per year which means I need almost $200K to fund the situation but I find that is merely an amount needed for the household to retire, rather than concern myself on changing behaviors that have not changed in the past and not funding that aspect of retirement spending.
__________________
Running_Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:06 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lisa99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Villages
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running_Man View Post
It seems to me that there needs to be a budget for the Amazon items that will meet what he likes to spend on or he will become miserable in retirement. To expect this activity to cease with mere reflection of his spending habits is unlikely and will be a continued source of friction.

I would budget a recurring purchase of gift cards to be directly applied to the Amazon account based on a typical years expenses so that he could see what his balance is and buy whatever with that money.

I have a similar situation with spending of near $7,000 per year which means I need almost $200K to fund the situation but I find that is merely an amount needed for the household to retire, rather than concern myself on changing behaviors that have not changed in the past and not funding that aspect of retirement spending.
That's a great way to think about it. The small item, but frequent shopping is a fact. So maybe we just plan for it and be done with it. It would mean that his monthly allowance would be bigger than mine, but I think that's probably ok too.
__________________
Learning how to be still, to really be still and let life happen - that stillness becomes a radiance -
Morgan Freeman
Lisa99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:08 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa99 View Post
I shared this thread with him yesterday and he now understands what the big deal is. Until he gets his shopping addiction under control I'm not comfortable retiring.
Not only can you get free finacial advice here but marriage counseling too!
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:10 PM   #34
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa99 View Post
That's a great way to think about it. The small item, but frequent shopping is a fact. So maybe we just plan for it and be done with it. It would mean that his monthly allowance would be bigger than mine, but I think that's probably ok too.
One of the most important things in a marriage that is a solid partnership is in avoiding situations likely to cause resentment where money matters are concerned. So if you're okay with him spending more than you, fine. (Or if he's willing to keep working to get a larger "allowance" while you retire with a smaller one and you remain "within budget" overall, that's fair too.)

Of course, the issue of one spouse working and one retiring is also something that is a potential source for resentment. But if the one who keeps working really does want to work and they don't feel their lifestyle is suffering because the other spouse isn't, that's not a problem either -- especially if the retired spouse can do more of the household chores and run most of the household errands to "sweeten the pot" for the one who still works.

There are a lot of different ways to deal with "unequal" allowances and situations where one keeps working and the other stops. But as I'm sure you're well aware, this is something that requires a lot of communication and understanding ahead of time, so no one feels a toxic resentment down the road.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:19 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa99 View Post
That's a great way to think about it. The small item, but frequent shopping is a fact. So maybe we just plan for it and be done with it. It would mean that his monthly allowance would be bigger than mine, but I think that's probably ok too.
The issue isn't the money IMHO. What I see is that he doesn't do what he's agreed to do. He's not respecting your mutual agreements.

I'm blessed with a reasonably frugal wife. We have an "under $1,000 - go for it" rule but neither of us will spend more than a hundred or so without bringing it up for discussion. We also don't buy very much. She'll come home with $75 of clothes and almost apolgize for buying it when she shows it to me. She'll force me to go out and buy new shoes when mine start falling apart. She may be frugal but I'm pretty cheap.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:31 PM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lisa99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Villages
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B View Post
The issue isn't the money IMHO. What I see is that he doesn't do what he's agreed to do. He's not respecting your mutual agreements.
Very true, and something we can work on together. I enable the behavior by not calling him on it every time I see a purchase hit the home account.

If we could get this one small area fixed, life would be just about perfect
__________________
Learning how to be still, to really be still and let life happen - that stillness becomes a radiance -
Morgan Freeman
Lisa99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
grasshopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B View Post
. We also don't buy very much. She'll come home with $75 of clothes and almost apolgize for buying it when she shows it to me. She'll force me to go out and buy new shoes when mine start falling apart. She may be frugal but I'm pretty cheap.
Women shop, men just replace the worn out stuff. When I go to the store I always look for the same brand/style I need to replace.
__________________
For me experiences are not good or bad, just different
grasshopper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:40 PM   #38
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 926
Your husband thinks you have enough money for him to buy things he wants on Amazon. Maybe he is right?
__________________
CW4, USA-(ret)
RN, BSN-(ret)
jclarksnakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:44 PM   #39
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 892
Another option is for him to agree to transfer money from his personal account to the home account every time he uses the home account. You can do this once a month when the billing period is done.

My wife and I have a similar setup with separate spending accounts except we that we always get the same amount. Sometimes we give ourselves a bonus, but it's always the same amount for both of us. This is our money to do with as we please and if one accumulates more than the other, more power to them.

And we also use these accounts for all our individual spending: clothes, haircuts, toys, etc. This way if she wants to spend $100+ on a new pair of shoes, that's none of my business. And I get no complaints when I buy a new gadget. It works well for us.
__________________
Eat, Drink and Be Merry.
tulak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:45 PM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper View Post
Women shop, men just replace the worn out stuff. When I go to the store I always look for the same brand/style I need to replace.
I really hated it when I went back to the same store to replace my shoes and they no longer carried that style/make. It took me 20 minutes to pick my new shoes - nothing seemed to fit right. I had planned on spending 2 minutes picking up the same ones.
__________________

__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:19 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.