Consultation from a CFP

[joeea]

I know the obvious action step is to check with other CFP's...but I'm wondering..which of you have gone ahead and gotten a consultation, and seen any real value from it?

I did.

What kind of CFP/Planner did you go to?

I use a fee-only fiduciary financial planner. I meet with them at least once per year, and talk with them more often whenever I have questions or concerns. So far it's worked out quite well for my wife and I.

Anybody else in the LA area and have a person to recommend?

Not in the LA area.

 

[tb001]

I'll add that I agree with the comments that unless you have a few very specific questions, you likely are in much better shape to evaluate your plan than a CFP. We had an hour long call with a CFP from Vanguard to review our plan. We spent 40 minutes of that time with me explaining why he was wrong on SS estimates and walking him through our unique situation.

He then put together a plan showing 66% success rate, largely because the tax burden he assumes ends up adding another 60k/yr to our burn rate, at least for the first 5 years where he details the info. We're supposed to have a follow up call, but I suspect it's going to be pretty useless.

I've been trying to find a second opinion because in spite of hearing me spend 40 min educating the CFP during our first call, my DH still assumes I'm making an error in my calculations because he's an *expert.* And of course, he's put the seed of doubt into my head, despite me running taxes 5 different ways and sending numbers to our accountant to run. (who came up with estimates very close to mine, with the caveat that she missed 3K of additional deductions which I caught)

I'm coming to the conclusion that no one cares about your financial health as much as you do, so at some point, if you're sure you've done the work, you have to trust yourself.

 

[EarlyBirdly]

Make a plan and stick with it. If it works the way you thought it would, leave it alone.

If not, find out what you did wrong and change it.

If you can't do either...Well, Good Luck while Swimming With Sharks.

You'll need it.

 

[tb001]

I did.


I use a fee-only fiduciary financial planner. I meet with them at least once per year, and talk with them more often whenever I have questions or concerns. So far it's worked out quite well for my wife and I.


Not in the LA area.

Will they take on remote clients? I would imagine many do...

 

[LarryMelman]

I'm coming to the conclusion that no one cares about your financial health as much as you do

I've had the thought of taking up a small side hustle in retirement like doing taxes or even advising-type things. But the thing is, I know my own situation forwards and backwards and inside-out. I know all the tax concerns that apply to me. As does the OP and many of you. Could I be as attentive to detail with someone else's numbers? I don't know.

 

[tb001]

I've had the thought of taking up a small side hustle in retirement like doing taxes or even advising-type things. But the thing is, I know my own situation forwards and backwards and inside-out. I know all the tax concerns that apply to me. As does the OP and many of you. Could I be as attentive to detail with someone else's numbers? I don't know.

Yes! You would think for taxes it would be more straight forward, especially given that she's been doing our taxes for many years.

But for CFP, especially when looking at RE, we are already not the norm. I've spent a crazy amount of time going through our plan, building in buffers, etc... I just don't know that an outside professional could offer much without very specific questions from me or highlighting areas of expense we may have missed (dental is one I see get missed a lot).

 

[joeea]

Will they take on remote clients? I would imagine many do...

Pretty much any advisors take on remote clients these days.

I happen to live close to ours, and I prefer to talk fact-to-face. But when I need a quick answer, a phone call works, too.

 

[joeea]

Could I be as attentive to detail with someone else's numbers?

You could not. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an informal side-hustle.

 

[joeea]

But for CFP, especially when looking at RE, we are already not the norm. I've spent a crazy amount of time going through our plan, building in buffers, etc... I just don't know that an outside professional could offer much without very specific questions from me or highlighting areas of expense we may have missed (dental is one I see get missed a lot).

A good outside professional could help a lot.

You know what you know. Professionals know more. They do this for a living.

 

[kgtest]

The one and only FA I spoke to in person also gave me the advice of going at it myself. He did not use such a fear based tactic as the "unknown" but did mention healthcare is the big X factor when retiring early...

He mentioned he would require me to move money to EJ (so he makes money and does his job) which he said even without knowing me well I would not be willing to do nor would I have reason to.

This was all based off of a one pager I had typed up with my current income and liabilities, savings rate, asset allocation etc etc.

I think just getting to the point I was comfortable speaking to a FA was leaps and bounds ahead of where i would have ever been had I not stumbled across ER.org.

 

[RunningBum]

A good outside professional could help a lot.

You know what you know. Professionals know more. They do this for a living.

Could. Might not.

This isn't a brain surgeon type anology. It's more like a landscaping maintenance. They are professionals and know more about lawn care than I do. But I can learn a lot, and about things specific to my yard, and I'm likely to take extra care and notice little things because it's my yard, so I might do better than them with my yard. But if I'm not willing to do the work, and have something wrong I don't notice or can't identify, they can do better, for a price. I could probably also be snowed into spending more money for unneeded work.

 

[ERD50]

Interesting post. I am a CFP, and wondered if I might do something like this when I retire. I will not want to manage assets or refer anyone, and I won't want ongoing relationships. A one time analysis for a fee is something I would enjoy and could do on my time schedule. Glad to hear someone is looking for this.

I'm guessing that for most CFP's, the effort/cost of obtaining new clients just doesn't make the one-time-review, one-time-charge worth it (though there might be possible follow ups - 5 years later?). The AUM guys end up hanging onto that client for a while, so their initial costs are amortized over the years.

People like us who know enough to just want a review are in the minority, most others probably think they need a long hand-holding relationship. And out of our minority, only some would seek out someone, and be willing to pay the kind of fee they need to charge. That sounds like tough hunting for the CFP.

But maybe in your semi-retired state, you could make it work for you? I just don't know how you'd get connected to the clients.

And I bet looking over someone else's plan, in a different format that each client brings, would be a lot of effort. It's like looking at someone else's software code. It takes a long time to understand what they are doing, and way, way longer to dig deep enough to find an error hiding in there. It often seems easier to start from scratch.

-ERD50

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I love taking a giant pile of data and turning it into a comprehensive plan. That's my favorite part of my job, and I'd enjoy doing that in retirement without all the other stuff- hand holding when the market goes down, etc.

It IS a lot of work, but rewarding when I find an opportunity that the client has missed, and that happens a lot. A lot of the liability goes away as I will surrender my securities licenses, and there would be no products involved. I wouldn't do it for $500, but I don't need to make a living at it either. I have a good reputation and could let the local CPAs know, or I could do a website. OTOH, it might be too much trouble, and I might enjoy retirement too much to bother.

 

[Which Roger]

How does one go about getting the knowledge needed?

You've come to the right place! I've learned most of what I know from this forum, bogleheads, and books and web sites that lead from those starting points.

 

[tb001]

Pretty much any advisors take on remote clients these days.

I happen to live close to ours, and I prefer to talk fact-to-face. But when I need a quick answer, a phone call works, too.

If you would be willing to pm me (and the OP) with a referral, it would be very appreciated!!

 

[target2019]

How does one go about getting the knowledge needed? I wouldn't mind paying for someone on a fee basis as well - to ensure i'm not overlooking things as well as understanding more for estate planning, etc.

I have looked at possibly taking some of the individual courses online that are requirements for CFP, as an option. I have not found anything at local community colleges.

There is some classroom stuff at Morningstar:
https://www.morningstar.com/start-investing/classroom

Much of that would serve well as preparation before tackling higher subjects.

This article is older, but mentions actual books that would be part of CFP course.
https://www.mymoneyblog.com/certified-financial-planner-cfp-education-on-the-cheap.html

 

[jIMOh]

Will they take on remote clients? I would imagine many do...

A CFP can have only 5 clients in a state they are not licensed in (known as a "de minimus rule". The exact number varies by state.

 

[kgtest]

I've had the thought of taking up a small side hustle in retirement like doing taxes or even advising-type things. But the thing is, I know my own situation forwards and backwards and inside-out. I know all the tax concerns that apply to me. As does the OP and many of you. Could I be as attentive to detail with someone else's numbers? I don't know.

I thought about this too. Even did a little "sample test" with the neighbor as my first client. Turns out, the clients will do what the clients will do.

I convinced him to open a Vanguard account, fund his Roth and a brokerage. He eventually drained the brokerage within a year after being late to the NVDA party and was back asking me for the next big "winner" in due time.

None of that was my advice, so what I realized was, yes I can get someone interested in investing to the point they take the risk...but only they are comfortable with their risk appetite which is likely different than mine...which makes it hard for me to advise lol.

In his case, he turned out to be a bad client for me as I would preach A/A. He eventually asked me about that "pie" picture I had shown him before...as he saw I was not needing to raid my accounts.

 

[target2019]

There is some classroom stuff at Morningstar:
https://www.morningstar.com/start-investing/classroom

Much of that would serve well as preparation before tackling higher subjects.

This article is older, but mentions actual books that would be part of CFP course.
https://www.mymoneyblog.com/certified-financial-planner-cfp-education-on-the-cheap.html

Here's a current link to BU CFP program books.
https://financialplanningonline.bu.edu/course-books-and-materials

 

[Jerry1]

I've had the thought of taking up a small side hustle in retirement like doing taxes or even advising-type things. But the thing is, I know my own situation forwards and backwards and inside-out. I know all the tax concerns that apply to me. As does the OP and many of you. Could I be as attentive to detail with someone else's numbers? I don't know.

I did some taxes when I was working. I am a CPA, but I worked in finance for mega Corp. It was easy to add a few clients that had basic taxes and those similar to mine. Basically friends that would have otherwise gone to H&R Block and paid too much. But as I expanded out a bit, I quickly realized that the effort to keep up with tax law for many of the various tax issues other people had was too onerous to make the side hustle worth it. I knew how to do all the scenarios I encountered, but not proficiently. I had to research things and of course that took a lot of time. As a retiree, it would be just another job. No thank you. I have one friend that I handle their taxes and wouldn’t even do that if it was not a life long friend. Started out a a couple and now just the widow. No way I could say no to her now. Everyone else, I got rid of.

 

[Ginny]

I called one financial advisor, from a recommended group, told him what I was worth and that it was at Vanguard. He showed up at my home with a list of stocks that he would buy for me. I asked him if he had access to any QLACs and he did not know what it was. I let him blather for a while and then said good bye. I was amazed that he was so utterly clueless!!!

 

[jazz4cash]

Like many on this board, the OP knows more about financial planning than 99.9% of the general population, and probably more than the majority of "financial planners". People like us are so rare that accomodating us is a losing business model for a CFP.

+1
With an introductory letter like that, I can’t imagine any professional would be eager to take on a client that is probably more successful than they are (could be any field of practice). I’m not clear on what your goals are but looks like you’ve won the game and need big picture planning (eg wealth preservation, tax and estate planning, etc).

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

It IS a lot of work, but rewarding when I find an opportunity that the client has missed, and that happens a lot. A lot of the liability goes away as I will surrender my securities licenses, and there would be no products involved. I wouldn't do it for $500, but I don't need to make a living at it either.

Could you even do this for pay if you surrender your licence? I don't know a whole lot about the FA world, but it seems like (at least according to Kitces) you would need to maintain your licence.

The core requirement under the Investment Advisers Act of 1940 is that it’s “being in the business of giving investment advice for compensation” that triggers the need to register. While there are forms of financial advice that may not require registration, such as “financial coaching”, the reality is, almost anyone who’s holding themselves out as a financial advisor – particularly as a CFP certificant – is likely giving some form of investment advice, and consequently will need to register.

https://www.kitces.com/blog/registered-investment-adviser-requirements-series-65-exam-timing/

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I really don't know. I'm still immersed in work- I have 7 months to go and am only idly dreaming of what I might do to occupy myself.

You bring up a good point though. I hadn't thought I'd need to be affiliated with an advisory firm, but if I do, that could knock the whole idea in the head. I'd have to do a fair amount of work to make the costs worthwhile and I'm done with someone else's schedule.

Maybe to that's why it's hard to find someone to do a one-time plan for reasonable pay. On the other hand, I've seen websites offering financial plans and the "professional" has no training of any kind other than that he did a good job with his own finances...

 

[SecondCor521]

Since most of the financial planning issues I face are tax-related, I did reach out to the head CPA at the local office of the firm that did my Dad's taxes for many years. He's willing to do tax planning with me for $250 per hour. That's a reasonable price.

But as a hardened cheapskate it has motivated me to work harder myself at understanding my own situation and strategic options better. It also has led me to avail myself of the knowledge base here for free, which is often excellent. Sometimes people simply aren't interested in understanding some arcane corner of the tax code that I'm trying to figure out, which is fine - not their circus, not their monkeys. I get it.

The CPA I mentioned is in Boise, Idaho. PM me if you want the contact info.