Cool FIRE article in MSN Money

[mh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FI by 2024 Your bias is showing. Not everybody wants big money. Not everybody travels expensively (their method seems exceedingly cheap). Who the heck wants to retire this way? This couple. And while some (maybe not most) people on here would laugh at a 1M retirement, in the real world there are a lot of people who would kill to have that much money. Again, just because it's not what you would want doesn't make it a bad idea, and it certainly doesn't make it a lie like you've been arguing. To claim these articles are lies when there are clearly people living this way is, in itself, a lie. Why do you care so much how this couple lives? Let it be.

Nobody is arguing that they aren't living this way. But at 30, the issue is that their margin for error appears to very thin which seems to be glossed over. The penalty for error 10 years down the road is likely to be quite a bit more onerous than 10MY alternative


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom Hangonasec. Are you saying that in this forum, people are actually overthinking things?

Overthinking? Here? Can't happen. On the other hand, maybe we need a thread on that. With a poll. This is a matter we should look into. Do we overthink, if so by how much, and what should be done to address this.

[2017ish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB Overthinking? Here? Can't happen. On the other hand, maybe we need a thread on that. With a poll. This is a matter we should look into. Do we overthink, if so by how much, and what should be done to address this.

The Poll would need an option for "I haven't given this much thought."

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonEMouse Hey everyone, I just got an update from them 50 years in the future from fNet (future internet - don't ask how it works).* Outliving our retirement funds "At 88 and 87, I'm glad my wife and I are alive, but scared we'll live much longer. We're out of money." Outliving our retirement funds - Baltimore Sun Unfortunately for them, at that age, working is likely out of the question especially with one of them having dementia/Alzheimer. Though I wonder why they don't try a reverse mortgage or something. Sad story, but a reminder of why some folks on here have plans A-F to fall back on.

Note to self: don't invest the bulk of my savings in "safe" investments like CD's, treasuries, and money market accounts that barely keep even with inflation. 80 year old me won't be happy living broke!

Also, don't count on a six percent return to fund the next 60 years of life.

That's all self. Back to having fun.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh Nobody is arguing that they aren't living this way. But at 30, the issue is that their margin for error appears to very thin which seems to be glossed over. The penalty for error 10 years down the road is likely to be quite a bit more onerous than 10MY alternative Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

And we are now down to 25k a year for life. The msn money article reported a $1 million portfolio. I wondered about the house purchase expense.

Hopefully the renters won't be cooking meth or fixing their Harley in the living room.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB Overthinking? Here? Can't happen. On the other hand, maybe we need a thread on that. With a poll. This is a matter we should look into. Do we overthink, if so by how much, and what should be done to address this.

They just changed the math.

This thread is just getting started.

[rodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky And we are now down to 25k a year for life. The msn money suggested a $1 million portfolio. I wondered about the house purchase expense. Hopefully the renters won't be cooking meth or fixing their Harley in the living room.

My aren't you a ray of sunshine.

Since they live in the same house - I would imagine they will go through pretty thorough vetting of any long term rental candidates. That's what we did when we rented out our companion unit/guest house. If they were cooking meth or fixing a harley in the living room we'd know since the casita is on our lot and they have to past our house to get to theirs.


That said - I agree that they're portfolio, post home purchase, is smaller than I'd be comfortable with.... But I have a family of 4 and like creature comforts.

It is their choice, they seem adept at living frugally, it sounds like they are using a variable withdrawal strategy (4%/year - regardless of portfolio size - so after good years, they get more $$, after bad years, they get less)... so theoretically, they will never run out of money if they follow this rule. They might need to supplement with work/rental income/blog income, in bad years, though.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky And we are now down to 25k a year for life. The msn money article reported a $1 million portfolio. I wondered about the house purchase expense. Hopefully the renters won't be cooking meth or fixing their Harley in the living room.

Don't be so negative. It could be something fun :

Man Who Rented His Home On Airbnb Returns To Find An Orgy

“I had to call 911 and have these ‘XXX Freak Fest’ people removed from my apartment, my super is having me evicted by my landlord, and I do not feel safe here anymore since hundreds of people got a text saying there’s an XXX sex fest in my apartment and continue showing up, according to the doormen who I’ll never be able to look in the face again,” he wrote."

Newlyweds return home to find cocaine fueled orgy among Airbnb "guests"

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort Don't be so negative. It could be something fun : Man Who Rented His Home On Airbnb Returns To Find An Orgy

That plus a van, a bong, and a million dollars and even the most ardent detractors in this thread will be signing up for this whole "retire in your 30's" lifestyle.

[Hamlet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh Nobody is arguing that they aren't living this way. But at 30, the issue is that their margin for error appears to very thin which seems to be glossed over. The penalty for error 10 years down the road is likely to be quite a bit more onerous than 10MY alternative Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

Is the penalty really that high though? They'll just have to find a way to earn a little money. They'll still be very young, and their income needs are modest. Is it really terrible if one of them has to get a job in 10 years?

There aren't retirement police that shoot people who run low on money in retirement.

[aim-high]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eta2020 +1 That kind of portfolio, budget and young age has no space for any kind of error. Unless they start making ton of money of off their blog.

And the added point that some are making is that it may be a bit disingenuous to start a blog about how you're early retired when the numbers clearly wouldn't support it by most objective measures. With a hope of the income from said blog making up the difference.

There's no difference between that and working part-time in some other field -- except that I think one is a bit more honest. Nothing wrong with semi-retiring. Or retiring and having rental income that takes some time to manage.

Just to be doubly clear. There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting a blog with the idea of making a decent income from it. Even a financial blog. Take a look at Mike's Oblivious Investor. The questionable part for some of us is then pushing that blog through MSN as you're being a successful early retiree for click bait.

I realize everyone is doing it. I guess I'm an old school truth in advertising kind of guy. I don't like FA's that charge 1.5% for no value add either.

Okay... I'm done.

[Elbata]

A couple, friends, have defined benefits of ~$300K/year. Wife is back to work full time because they're just getting by.

Many who've been in the ER game since the 80s have found that their net worth has increased, not decreased. I would bet the Bruno couple will see their NW increase too.

To me, it all boils down to Jack Bogle's "Enough". What's enough for me may be different for you. For me, I respect these young people.

[aida2003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky These stories are everywhere now and they are just trying to get eyeballs on blogs and ears on podcasts. Its just another fake millennial fantasy to retire early these days just like in the high flying 90s when you saw article after article about people retiring at age 50. Didn't happen. Yes maybe some VERY high income couples can pull this off closer to age 40 without kids. Thats an additional 10 years of saving cash. But this couple has a math problem. Its fake. But that MSN article will sure drive traffic to their blog.

Purplesky, what's your story? You definitely sound very NEGATIVE. I hope you didn't get the link to this ER forum from some ER blog

[papadad111]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aida2003 Purplesky, what's your story? You definitely sound very NEGATIVE. I hope you didn't get the link to this ER forum from some ER blog

He isn't really being negative. Just playing the devils advocate to this story...

I would consider it a realist position - pointing out the difference between reality and fantasy land - the flaws in the logic ...

And with a big dose of criticism to MSN for telling this story to the general public without disclosing all the facts - to the public who are too countrified on topics of money to know the difference...and then believe everything they read in a paper or the Internet..

[papadad111]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aim-high And the added point that some are making is that it may be a bit disingenuous to start a blog about how you're early retired when the numbers clearly wouldn't support it by most objective measures. With a hope of the income from said blog making up the difference. There's no difference between that and working part-time in some other field -- except that I think one is a bit more honest. Nothing wrong with semi-retiring. Or retiring and having rental income that takes some time to manage. Just to be doubly clear. There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting a blog with the idea of making a decent income from it. Even a financial blog. Take a look at Mike's Oblivious Investor. The questionable part for some of us is then pushing that blog through MSN as you're being a successful early retiree for click bait. I realize everyone is doing it. I guess I'm an old school truth in advertising kind of guy. I don't like FA's that charge 1.5% for no value add either. Okay... I'm done.

+1000

[papadad111]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet Is the penalty really that high though? They'll just have to find a way to earn a little money. They'll still be very young, and their income needs are modest. Is it really terrible if one of them has to get a job in 10 years? There aren't retirement police that shoot people who run low on money in retirement.

Or we wind up paying for them and their followers by way of higher taxes ... It's a zero sum game.

[papadad111]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUEGO Except they have a $270k house in a great prime downtown location that has a separate basement apartment. Virtually zero chance they won't make a small mint renting that out (either airbnb like they mention or traditional long term lease). And while they are traveling they might be able to rent out their whole house and more than cover the cost of their travels. It's more like they have a $670k* portfolio where the asterisk contains a big footnote. Sure, they may do something productive that pays at some point. It wouldn't take much effort to make an extra $10-12k per year and get them to $40k per year in spending (plus a paid off house). Whether that means renting their basement apartment and/or their primary residence while away or some extremely part time fun work (=blog?). If they work 3 hours per week and make $6k from the blog and $6k/yr from their rental efforts, did they unretire themselves? I sent Travis the link to this thread. I hope they are laughing at the banality of the discussion.

Ok. But the point is they say they are retired.

Quote from their blog. "Retired in our 30's, having adventures with Bruno, enjoying our newfound freedom!"

And... They ain't retired ...


It's ok to un-retire but the Bruno's and mainstream USA today Type media needs to be honest and stop selling this as "early retirement". It's disingenuous.
It's untruthful. ..... It's lying.

They took time off / career switched to low income side hustles. Be it air BB or rental income of their primary residence or blogs income or working at Walmart ..

The blog becomes way less interesting ... Coz they aren't retired.

So where is the retirement police when we need them.


Book em, Danno.


Joking aside - I certainly respect the effort and I guess it's less about envy and more about warning them as we would warn anyone who comes aboard and asks am I ready to retire

Few would green light this based on their portfolio position. Most in this audience have well over a million, in fact last net worth survey indicated average was north of 2M. So this group does tend to be more conservative

Many people for one reason or another will retire on less. For sure. But also many of those will ultimately fail too.

Perhaps the approach and intent is that of a big brother rather than someone throwing rocks at their glass house.

I do admire their attempt. Youth can be so optimistic that they don rose colored glasses. That vantage can endanger even the best of plans

[daylatedollarshort]

So when is it okay to comment on these blogs? Is it okay to comment when someone writes they retired at 12 with 100K and fifteen kids, is that okay to comment on or would that still be the retirement police? Cause I'm sensing that is the direction these blogs are heading since retire at thirty niche is getting over crowded and passe. Is there a cutoff of when it is okay to point out any unrealistic assumptions, improbabilities or potential pitfalls?

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aida2003 Purplesky, what's your story? You definitely sound very NEGATIVE. I hope you didn't get the link to this ER forum from some ER blog

My perspective and reaction to their situation is like that of a parent or close relative. Basically tough love. Suck it up. Keep working.

I have been called jealous and envious but my reaction to this couple is to be protective.

This couple was so close to having enough money in their portfolio that would have produced very sufficient income while they sleep and play.

This is how the rich get rich. Don't touch that 1st million! Just rich enough to create a small pension and build wealth for your kids or just as a safety net. Not to buy stuff.

So whatever. They will be fine. They say everything happens for a reason.

I have a feeling they might have wealthy parents.

I guess they didn't talk with a Financial advisor. That might have helped them to stay focused on the carrot. Avoid instant gratification.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by papadad111 He isn't really being negative. Just playing the devils advocate to this story... I would consider it a realist position - pointing out the difference between reality and fantasy land - the flaws in the logic ... And with a big dose of criticism to MSN for telling this story to the general public without disclosing all the facts - to the public who are too countrified on topics of money to know the difference...and then believe everything they read in a paper or the Internet..

You read my mind.