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Old 05-30-2016, 10:31 PM   #121
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To share another perspective I'll jump in with my story. I'm working towards the FIRE in less than 10 years story. I'm also not new to the building of wealth stage as I have 93% of the wealth I think I'll need and unless Mr Market throws a curve ball I'll be done in 6 months. So I know what it takes to build wealth quickly.

Some disclosure first: I was late to the FIRE party so I'll be 44 when I give it a go so have a few years on FreedowWithBruno.

For the life I want to lead I believe I need more than FWB's $1M but not a lot more, circa $1.5M.

I'm planning on moving to a Mediterranean country (Cyprus, Spain, Malta/Gozo...) and will spend about $390,000 (EUR350,000) on a home, which I will consider a palace compared to my current South East of England home and which is a lot more than FWB's $270,000.

I then expect to spend about $27,000 per annum, including healthcare which I admit costs nothing like that of the US, to live the life I desire. My current costs, net of w*rk and rent costs, run to about $11,000 per annum in comparison. I do acknowledge I will have home maintenance costs but that still includes plenty of 'fun' money.

That is a withdrawal rate of <2.5% which my research suggests is reasonably conservative. Would really like to know why the FIRE in 10 years it's not going to work, provided of course the future is no worse than the past, without a side hustle or high paying blog as I have neither.

Edit: Also why can't I call myself retired if I never have to work to eat again.
At first blush your numbers appear to work out better: lower medical costs, it sounds like one person instead of two and no future kids (no college, braces, sports, prom, student driver car insurance rates, ER visits especially for boys)?, less years of retirement to fund, retirement in lower cost of living country with more safety nets, more years paying into UK SS and not as far off to collect. All those differences add up.

In the U.S. medical costs from age 65+ can be $10K a year or more alone for a married couple. Long term care costs per year in the UK are around half of the U.S. cost (can be $80K or more a year here per person X 2 for a married couple). I'm guessing LTC costs are even lower in Spain than the UK.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:34 PM   #122
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Well now we know. Purplesky is envious. And he's still working with millennials which really pisses him off because he thinks they'll be retiring before he does.

Who cares?
I could retire now. Not sure why I would be envious of any fellow worker.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:41 PM   #123
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What's keeping you then? Want a few more bucks? Whatever works.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:42 PM   #124
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Seems like you are a bit out of touch with the millennials as some companies give unlimited vacation time these days.

https://www.themuse.com/advice/10-aw...mited-vacation

These 6 brands have great vacation policies - Fortune

Even steel companies were giving 5 weeks not too long ago. Of course, our steel companies are history now that they lost out to the hard working Asians and Chinese. But that's OK, we can just buy their steel.
Big picture not that many people get 7 weeks paid vacation these days so I am very lucky.
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Old 05-30-2016, 11:07 PM   #125
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What's keeping you then? Want a few more bucks? Whatever works.
Right now I am finding enough time off from work to do what I want to do.

So for me its worth maxing my 401k and Roth out and also getting company stock to continue working.

I have a pension also and I am close to my next years of service milestone.

So for me working a few years longer will hopefully equal substantial pension money.

My job involves travel and I am not stuck in a office.

The carrot is too large at this point.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:34 AM   #126
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wish I could side with you dude, when I retire I was entitled to 5 weeks earned vacation, plus you were allowed to purchase a week and I got unlimited sick days.
6 weeks was the max for my megacorp but you had to be there 35 years to get that.
you could also bank vacation.
I had 6 weeks vacation my last year.
I was also getting 5 weeks of vacation when when I left my megacorp. Initially, we could bank vacation days. But, corporate tax laws changed at some point so that this counted as a liability on the company's balance sheet. So, we had to use them up over time.

I was once was able to take off just over 3 months bumming around SE Asia all on vacation time.

I FIREd when I was 45.
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Old 05-31-2016, 06:42 AM   #127
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You forgot that they likely have to pay 15% taxes on their dividend income and that yield is more like 2.5%... So more like $20k net of federal and state investment income tax

Air BnB income is also taxable. So figure 20 % tax on that income between 15% federal and some state taxes. So that falls to 9k
I don't think taxes are going to be as high as you suggest ($10k).

Between qualified dividends, capital gains, and personal exemptions it's possible to pay nothing at the couple's hypothetical income level. This past year, turbo tax actually reported a negative federal rate for me.

We don't know how much of their assets are in taxable vs tax-deferred (accessible by roth conversions). But if you put $40k in income in taxcaster, you get $2k of federal taxes. This is worst case (i.e. they have no taxable divs/cg that qualify for the 0% tax rate). While $2k isn't nothing, I don't think it's material for the discussion.

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tool...ors/taxcaster/

Quote:
Then there's that pesky thing called inflation which runs 2% per year, which could run more than that and squish their income and portfolio to smithereens.

...

Market has been flat for the last couple years. Sequence of return risk to contend with.
This is already accounted for in the 3% withdrawal rate assuming a FireCalc like approach (i.e. spending is increased by inflation every year and portfolio is subject to variable returns). See also the trinity / bengen studies which are the basis for FIREcalc's approach.
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:52 AM   #128
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DW got 4 weeks, unlimited sick leave, plenty of floating holidays, every Friday off, and paid 5-12 week summer vacations her last two years of work.

But I still don't think it's possible Purplesky has 7 weeks of vacation time because no one can get that. It's unrealistic.
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:54 AM   #129
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DW got 4 weeks, unlimited sick leave, plenty of floating holidays, every Friday off, and paid 5-12 week summer vacations her last two years of work.

But I still don't think it's possible Purplesky has 7 weeks of vacation time because no one can get that. It's unrealistic.
I'm not sure that everyone recognizes sarcasm without the proper sarcasm font used, Fuego

Cough, cough: 8 or 9 weeks are what I've gotten the past few years.
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:06 AM   #130
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What's a vacation?

Edit: oh, sorry, now I remember. It's been so long - a vacation is one of those things for people that w*ok.
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:07 AM   #131
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I'm not sure that everyone recognizes sarcasm without the proper sarcasm font used, Fuego

Cough, cough: 8 or 9 weeks are what I've gotten the past few years.
It's a lost art. No matter how thick one spreads it, it goes unnoticed.
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:14 AM   #132
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It's a lost art. No matter how thick one spreads it, it goes unnoticed.
Not lost, just under-appreciated - by some.
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:24 AM   #133
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Not lost, just under-appreciated - by some.
If the still working had more than 4 weeks vacation time, then surely they could appreciate the more subtle arts.
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:38 AM   #134
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DW got 4 weeks, unlimited sick leave, plenty of floating holidays, every Friday off, and paid 5-12 week summer vacations her last two years of work.

But I still don't think it's possible Purplesky has 7 weeks of vacation time because no one can get that. It's unrealistic.
Setting the sarcasm fount aside....

I think DW and I both have "unlimited," or "discretionary" vacations. Doesn't make much difference. To do things properly, we still take three weeks. (And, if you add the weekend/holiday work back in, the result is uglier.)

All the more reason to jettison the work world soon.
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Old 05-31-2016, 10:27 AM   #135
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Not lost, just under-appreciated - by some.
And of course some people are better at it than others, both the writing and the appreciating. And as my dear mother used to say, a little goes a long way. But perhaps all the posts in this thread are meant to be sarcastic.

Irony, now that's a lot more fun than sarcasm. And pity.
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Old 05-31-2016, 03:11 PM   #136
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Maybe we should just start giving 30 year olds a pension check for life so they can go out in the world and do good things instead of actually working.

Because working the 10 years through your 20s is such a big waste of time and it's so damn exhausting.

And we are suggesting the work ethic of "not working" on this generation is a good thing. Not cool.
You might want to sit down (if you're not already). There are movements afoot to do exactly that from Canada to Switzerland, except you don't even have to be 30 to get a "basic income" - a government provided stipend to all adults. The measure is likely to fail in Switzerland, but Ontario is set to begin its experiment with basic incomes soon.
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Old 05-31-2016, 03:43 PM   #137
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Oh yeah, I remember reading about the Canadian "Mincome" experiment from way back, that was very interesting. Thanks for bringing it up, Anon. Should cause a cataclysm of sputtering...
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Old 05-31-2016, 03:47 PM   #138
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Old 05-31-2016, 03:50 PM   #139
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Oh yeah, I remember reading about the Canadian "Mincome" experiment from way back, that was very interesting. Thanks for bringing it up, Anon. Should cause a cataclysm of sputtering...
LOL!!!!
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Old 05-31-2016, 04:09 PM   #140
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Some people are such troublemakers.......
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