Cool FIRE article in MSN Money

[daylatedollarshort]

I'm a fan of Juliet Schor, who wrote The Overspent American and The Overworked American and she uses the term downshifting, which the Google defines as "change a financially rewarding but stressful career or lifestyle for a less pressured and less highly paid but more fulfilling one."

Words do have meanings, but "retire" attracts more click bait than changing careers or working part-time.

[Sarah in SC]

I am also a fan of Juliet Shor. Her books about consumer culture are spot on, and gave me much food for thought when I read them. I also like the term downshifting to describe a lifestyle to which I try very hard to subscribe.

I always emphasize, because words matter to me a good bit, that my DH "quit his job", not "retired". That doesn't mean he's not going to pick up odds and ends to keep from having to "work" for me, or that he's pure-tee retired. It just means he quit his job and isn't looking for another one. Crystal clear to me, but we have plenty of friends who interpret it differently, and call him retired. I don't argue the point.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eta2020 Simple Savings Calculator - Savings Interest & Investment Growth Calculator If they save 10k a month at 6.5% growth they have 1 million in 7 years and 1.7 Million in 10 years. How difficult is that if you do not waste money on Housing and cars? You seem to not understand that even 2 college grads can make 250k within 2-3 years out of school.

If it's so easy how come college grads are not able to it? Because life happens. How many college grads can save. 8k a month.

And if a college grad pulls this amazing task off by age 32 why would they stop building wealth at 1 million to only produce an income level of the struggling middle class?

To blog and do a YouTube channel vs save 8 to 10k until age 42 and be broke proof ?

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah in SC I always emphasize, because words matter to me a good bit, that my DH "quit his job", not "retired". That doesn't mean he's not going to pick up odds and ends to keep from having to "work" for me, or that he's pure-tee retired. It just means he quit his job and isn't looking for another one. Crystal clear to me, but we have plenty of friends who interpret it differently, and call him retired. I don't argue the point.

It took me a long time to transition from "I quit my job and am taking some time off" to "retired". It still feels funny. Most people associate retired with pension and the nosiest are surprised when they learn I don't have one.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky If it's so easy how come college grads are not able to it? Because life happens. How many college grads can save. 8k a month. And if a college grad pulls this amazing task off by age 32 why would they stop building wealth at 1 million to only produce an income level of the struggling middle class?

Because a lot of the jobs are high reward, high stress, and long hours. Average salaries around LA and SF are over $100K a few years out of college for many tech jobs. Three twenty-something roommates in a house can easily have a household income of over $300K+. But is easy to get burned out doing that for too long and then free time becomes more important than money.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort Because a lot of the jobs are high reward, high stress, and long hours. Average salaries around LA and SF are over $100K a few years out of college for many tech jobs. Three twenty-something roommates in a house can easily have a household income of over $300K+. But is easy to get burned out doing that for too long and then free time becomes more important than money.

So I guess high tech jobs in CA haven't changed for 160 years?

1850: "I'm going to CA to sell my services as a mine surveyor. I'll make a ton then move back."

2016: "I'm going to CA to sell my services as a programmer. I'll make a ton and then move back."

In retrospect, I *might* be retired now if I had moved to CA to sell my programming skills. I was just never comfortable living there, even if it was only for a few years. Love to visit though.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort Because a lot of the jobs are high reward, high stress, and long hours. Average salaries around LA and SF are over $100K a few years out of college for many tech jobs. Three twenty-something roommates in a house can easily have a household income of over $300K+. But is easy to get burned out doing that for too long and then free time becomes more important than money.

the millennials I work with all make in the 100k range after a few short years

They seem to view their career long term and not a sprint.

[bclover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky the millennials I work with all make in the 100k range after a few short years They seem to view their career long term and not a sprint.

wow where do you guys live? I have phd scientist that only reach that salary after 10 years on the job.

My two sons (25 and 22) do not have one friend making 50K.

My neighbors kid just graduated law school. He got his first gig in February, working for the city of Philadelphia I think he's at 57K with a law degree and passed the bar.

I was a scientist with megacorp in delaware, after 25 years my ending salary was 82K

[bclover]

Question??

What do we do with the 10 million other college kids who are NOT software engineers. I can assure you college kids coming out of school with a BS in education are not making 10K a month.

Now considering from the information I googled quickly, the average salary of folks with an ADVANCED degree is between 81k-91K. where are all these millennials rocking 20K monthly

and if they are why the heck are they whining about having student debt

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort Because a lot of the jobs are high reward, high stress, and long hours. Average salaries around LA and SF are over $100K a few years out of college for many tech jobs. Three twenty-something roommates in a house can easily have a household income of over $300K+. But is easy to get burned out doing that for too long and then free time becomes more important than money.

If you could discipline yourself to save cash in that situation for 10 years you could really build a nice nest egg if you keep your hands off and not buy a tesla.

[photoguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclover Now considering from the information I googled quickly, the average salary of folks with an ADVANCED degree is between 81k-91K. where are all these millennials rocking 20K monthly

See attached graph from Do You Earn Less Than a Silicon Valley Intern? - Bloomberg

I'm not sure of the source of the graph (Rodney Folz), but it doesn't seem out of line from my (admittedly old) experience. You can extrapolate out with 5-15% raises per year.

Quote:

What do we do with the 10 million other college kids who are NOT software engineers. I can assure you college kids coming out of school with a BS in education are not making 10K a month.

I'm not sure that we need to do anything (other than maybe educate HS kids about career opportunities).

Also these tech companies hire a lot more than "software engineers" at high pay levels.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclover Question?? What do we do with the 10 million other college kids who are NOT software engineers. I can assure you college kids coming out of school with a BS in education are not making 10K a month.

You mean SW engineers in the Bay Area.

Somewhere along the line this thread got onto the the whole SW engineering thing. Problem is even in SW engineering, few of the new grads make the kind of clams being talked about there. There are exceptions and averages.

Don't even get me started on offshoring.

We're talking really small amounts of grads, so yeah, what about the 10 million others?

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky If you could discipline yourself to save cash in that situation for 10 years you could really build a nice nest egg if you keep your hands off and not buy a tesla.

I think that was the point of the article. Many people succumb to lifestyle creep.

[eta2020]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclover wow where do you guys live? I have phd scientist that only reach that salary after 10 years on the job. My two sons (25 and 22) do not have one friend making 50K. My neighbors kid just graduated law school. He got his first gig in February, working for the city of Philadelphia I think he's at 57K with a law degree and passed the bar. I was a scientist with megacorp in delaware, after 25 years my ending salary was 82K

Boston Massachusetts. 82k is first year out of school.

Software Engineer age 30-50 is making more like 150-200k. That means couple makes 300-400k. It is not overly complex to save 10-16k a month if you do not care driving Civic and living in a small house. Though even small house/condominium in nice area will cost huge sums of money.

But majority will waste their money on McMansions and BMWs

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoguy See attached graph from Do You Earn Less Than a Silicon Valley Intern? - Bloomberg I'm not sure of the source of the graph (Rodney Folz), but it doesn't seem out of line from my (admittedly old) experience.

But getting an internship at many of those companies is difficult. Again, small numbers.

Back in the ancient days, when I was an intern at a well known large Megacorp, the interns got paid well too. I took a regular job there for only 15% more than my intern salary. Just saying these interns are generally a pretty good cream of crop. I know I recently did recruiting for this talent pool, and we put them through a pretty strict screening process. Nothing fell into their laps.

[RobbieB]

It's amazing no doubt. But internet high tech is where the dough is now and for the well into the future me thinks.

I started my career (with a BSEE) in 1979 and made a whole 25K my first year. I made 80 grand when I retired in 2014. But I was an analog guy in a digital world.

[photoguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras But getting an internship at many of those companies is difficult. Again, small numbers.

That's true. I'd expect them to be at the top of their class (not necessarily in grades but experience/skill) at the better/best universities.

Some recruiter told me that getting hired at google by just submitting a resume to a posting was one in a million chance. Even if you remove all the candidates with bogus/junk resumes who have no real shot, that's still pretty steep odds.

On the other hand, if these companies are pushing salaries higher at the top end, I imagine everyone benefits as they push incomes up for the field as a whole.

[Sarah in SC]

bclover, I was shocked to learn that a young friend of mine (well, sorta young, he's 28) is making $100k in Detroit, with an automotive engineering degree. Another youngster, about the same age, is in Seattle with a software engineering degree, is a bit higher.

Nowhere near that here in SC, or at least not in the crowds I hang with.

[2017ish]

Re millennial earnings. No different than our generation(s). Wide range.

I never would think that my kids and their spouses are representative of such a wide swath of humanity as "millennials." Much like DW and I are not representative of the entire universe of "tail end boomers." But, knowing our kids and their friends does make me confident that much of the doom and gloom is overwrought; not all "millennials" are going to hades in a handbasket. {which, BTW, is one of the weirdest folk sayings!}

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort I think that was the point of the article. Many people succumb to lifestyle creep.

I guess balance is key.

If a single guy has 1 million and he meets a girl.

It's over.