Cool FIRE article in MSN Money

[purplesky]

So, the real problem is that they are traveling the world and having fun and making 50 grand a year writing about it and you're not?

I have been to many parts of the world.

There is no problem. They should have fun.

 

[RobbieB]

I think he's seen the light!

You have fun too purp, and don't worry about those young'uns -

 

[FUEGO]

I'm going to make it my goal this year to earn $50k writing about travel and retirement. Except that sounds way too much like work. And might interfere with, you know, actual travel and retirement pursuits. I bet Travis and Amanda at FreedomwithBruno would agree with me.

I have been to many parts of the world.

There is no problem. They should have fun.

You should write about it. $50k easy money, no problem, no skills required. Show those millennials what a little effort, hard work and dedication can do.

 

[papadad111]

The lie is they are not retired. MSN money claims they are.



In the real world $1 million only produces a low middle-class wage. Not to mention inflation.



Its a trendy millennial gold rush fantasy that you can now just work 10 years and just ride off into the sunset and not work.



I think its actually funny people are buying this. Theres gold in them hills.



And travel gets expensive eventually.



They can do what they want. No worries.

+1.

Didn't boomers do this whole routine in the late 1960's and early 1970's in a VW Westphalia bus ? (Queue Woodstock super-8 video clips)

They weren't retired then ... and finally ....figured it out that living in a VW bus wasn't all that ...and so moved to the suburbs and got real jobs.

They worked for 30 years and retired "early" at 58....

Play it again, Sam!

 

[RobbieB]

Yeah, but they were hippies and didn't have anything but the bus and a lid of grass and some sleeping bags.

 

[purplesky]

I'm going to make it my goal this year to earn $50k writing about travel and retirement. Except that sounds way too much like work. And might interfere with, you know, actual travel and retirement pursuits. I bet Travis and Amanda at FreedomwithBruno would agree with me.



You should write about it. $50k easy money, no problem, no skills required. Show those millennials what a little effort, hard work and dedication can do.

FUEGO if you can earn 50k doing what you love to do that is awesome.
More power to you.

Same with FreedomwithBruno.

Everyone chooses their own path. I am taking the more boring longer path.

 

[purplesky]

Yeah, but they were hippies and didn't have anything but the bus and a lid of grass and some sleeping bags.

Have you been to Colorado lately?

 

[Fedup]

Who needs a million to retire? The bums in LA and SF surely don't. They have prime view of the SF bay that some of us don't have. Have anybody try clinking on their blogs yet?
Edit to add, there are actually blogs for homelessness.

Honestly when I accidentally had to read MMM, I found it hard work, it was not even entertainment. Too hard as a matter of fact. I hate pinching pennies, I rather work a little bit longer.

 

[FUEGO]

Yeah, but they were hippies and didn't have anything but the bus and a lid of grass and some sleeping bags.

According to the logic displayed in this thread by some, there is no substantial difference between a hippie with no assets other than a beat up VW van and a half cashed bong and the same hippie with a million dollars in income producing assets (plus the van and bong).

 

[JoeWras]

I was pretty shocked myself when my sibling told me my nephew who is 25yo, struggled through school but did make it through post secondary yet has a great personality and is fearless pulled in $90k last year in a sales and marketing postion. He's apparently living it up instead of saving. YOLO?

When I started, I was making in the 30's, and it was good money. I lived extremely frugally those first few years.

I remember a co-w*rker saying to me: "You got it right. Here I am buying a $20k sportscar, blowing it all for that. You are building a life."

It was an interesting conversation, but he was admitting that he was blowing it.

So your nephew is nothing new since the dawn of time. There's a few biblical stories with the same theme.

 

[aim-high]

According to the logic displayed in this thread by some, there is no substantial difference between a hippie with no assets other than a beat up VW van and a half cashed bong and the same hippie with a million dollars in income producing assets (plus the van and bong).

I think you're misrepresenting the opinion expressed by the naysayers.

 

[FUEGO]

I think you're misrepresenting the opinion expressed by the naysayers.

You mean the ones that equate homelessness and sleeping in one's car with camping in an upfitted 4x4 on a multi-month overland trip while you have a million bucks in the bank?

Or were there other naysayers with more reasonable objections?

If Bill Gates decided to sleep on the beach on Richard Branson's private island because the weather was perfect (and because he could!), I imagine some here would say "not the lifestyle for me / no way would I retire to a life of deprivation like that! / shoulda saved more, Bill!".

 

[Fedup]

There are lot of homelessness in Hawaii, I was told they wait for happy hours to get free food. Some of them came from socialist country like Sweden. They've got it made, there's no need for millions. But it's still not a permanent life style I want.
If it's for one day, one week, I don't see a problem. But if it's permanent basis, what's the difference between the homeless with billions and the homeless without billions? Not much. Except the ones with billions should have his brain examined, possibly mental health problem. I don't think anybody wants him to save more.

 

[papadad111]

You mean the ones that equate homelessness and sleeping in one's car with camping in an upfitted 4x4 on a multi-month overland trip while you have a million bucks in the bank?

Or were there other naysayers with more reasonable objections?

If Bill Gates decided to sleep on the beach on Richard Branson's private island because the weather was perfect (and because he could!), I imagine some here would say "not the lifestyle for me / no way would I retire to a life of deprivation like that! / shoulda saved more, Bill!".

Fuego - you're a super smart guy with a plan and your blog income offsets expenses.

That's very different than these Bruno's

I am a naysayer- because the math just doesn't work. I'm doubtful any couple can keep their spending consistently below a draw down of 4% on their $670k spendable portfolio for 40 to 50 years. Especially when market is projected to not return 7%!look at the historic market return since 2000... And Trinity was only for a 25 year time frame. They are not currently adding to assets.

These kids will grow up and figure it out. Either find a way to augment portfolio ( which is called work) or get really lucky. My bet is they go back to some form of work.

It's why the mustache guy isn't too popular here. A little too risky for most ... Borderlines on an improbable chance of success and selling this idea to a generation is irresponsible.

 

[Big_Hitter]

The asset mix necessary to generate a long-term target (50th percentile) of 7% return has a huge standard deviation - like 16% or something, maybe higher

These kids think they can draw off a million and have a bad year or two, they'll be eating alpo

 

[eta2020]

I am a naysayer- because the math just doesn't work. I'm doubtful any couple can keep their spending consistently below a draw down of 4% on their $670k spendable portfolio for 40 to 50 years. Especially when market is projected to not return 7%!look at the historic market return since 2000... And Trinity was only for a 25 year time frame. They are not currently adding to assets.

+1

That kind of portfolio, budget and young age has no space for any kind of error.

Unless they start making ton of money of off their blog.

 

[Sarah in SC]

One of my favorite photo blogs: Van Life

Great ideas in there for building custom kitchens and other setups to make travel/camping easier.

 

[FUEGO]

I am a naysayer- because the math just doesn't work. I'm doubtful any couple can keep their spending consistently below a draw down of 4% on their $670k spendable portfolio for 40 to 50 years. Especially when market is projected to not return 7%!look at the historic market return since 2000... And Trinity was only for a 25 year time frame. They are not currently adding to assets.

These kids will grow up and figure it out. Either find a way to augment portfolio ( which is called work) or get really lucky. My bet is they go back to some form of work.

Except they have a $270k house in a great prime downtown location that has a separate basement apartment. Virtually zero chance they won't make a small mint renting that out (either airbnb like they mention or traditional long term lease).

And while they are traveling they might be able to rent out their whole house and more than cover the cost of their travels.

It's more like they have a $670k* portfolio where the asterisk contains a big footnote.

Sure, they may do something productive that pays at some point. It wouldn't take much effort to make an extra $10-12k per year and get them to $40k per year in spending (plus a paid off house). Whether that means renting their basement apartment and/or their primary residence while away or some extremely part time fun work (=blog?). If they work 3 hours per week and make $6k from the blog and $6k/yr from their rental efforts, did they unretire themselves?

I sent Travis the link to this thread. I hope they are laughing at the banality of the discussion.

 

[FUEGO]

One of my favorite photo blogs: Van Life

Great ideas in there for building custom kitchens and other setups to make travel/camping easier.

But you're still borderline homeless unless you're in a $500,000 Class A motorhome. Even if you do have a million dollars in productive assets backing your lifestyle.

 

[FUEGO]

Fun times with FIREcalc:

$25,000 annual withdrawals from a $670,000 portfolio for 35 years gives 96% success rate.

In 35 years they will probably get SS equal to $25,000 (possibly needing a few quarters here and there to qualify depending on whether their Canada earnings credits transfer).

$25k represents an amount 56% higher than the poverty line (ignoring the fact that they have a paid off house that will likely generate significant rental income). Our family of five lived quite well last year here in NC on $25k and a paid off home. Surely the FwB folks are as smart as me and can do more with just 2 of them.

96% chance of enjoying life significantly above the poverty line in perpetuity? First world problem.

 

[Big_Hitter]

2016 FPL for 2 people is 16K and goes up with inflation, so unless you increase that drawdown with inflation it will go below the FPL at some point - is the 25K inflation adjusted? I don't use firecalc, I have my own model.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty-guidelines

 

[FUEGO]

2016 FPL for 2 people is 16K, not 12.5K


https://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty-guidelines

$25000 / $16000 = 1.56 = "$25000 is 56% higher than the poverty level"

Plus they have a paid off home that's a duplex in practice.

 

[Big_Hitter]

$25000 / $16000 = 1.56 = "$25000 is 56% higher than the poverty level"

Plus they have a paid off home that's a duplex in practice.

hopefully they can rent that out for a few grand a month

 

[FUEGO]

hopefully they can rent that out for a few grand a month

I have no clue what the rental market is like in Asheville, but the renturchase price is pretty high in North Carolina generally. I imagine a $270,000 property would bring $1500-2200/mo, especially if there really is a viable separate basement apartment ($600 basement apartment, $1000 main living space?).

Just my guess. But big rental revenue doesn't appear necessary for their fairly modest lifestyle and love of budget travel.

edit: cheapest 2 BR 4+ guest airbnb rental in downtown Asheville is ~$125/nt. Not hard to swing a net of $1000/mo with minimal effort (outsource the cleaning). The $125/nt place is booked 14 nights in June so far, so 50%+ occupancy rate is realistic at the right price. That would net $1500/mo.

 

[purplesky]

Fun times with FIREcalc:

$25,000 annual withdrawals from a $670,000 portfolio for 35 years gives 96% success rate.

In 35 years they will probably get SS equal to $25,000 (possibly needing a few quarters here and there to qualify depending on whether their Canada earnings credits transfer).

$25k represents an amount 56% higher than the poverty line (ignoring the fact that they have a paid off house that will likely generate significant rental income). Our family of five lived quite well last year here in NC on $25k and a paid off home. Surely the FwB folks are as smart as me and can do more with just 2 of them.

96% chance of enjoying life significantly above the poverty line in perpetuity? First world problem.

Hopefully they have a huge emergency fund.
Just in case a bear market comes along. Or a market crash.