Corporate games and my 401k....

[jazz4cash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor99 Well... I finally did it... I had enough of the nonsense, and decided to take a trip to our HR department. I let them know what my concerns were, that the payment was currently over two weeks late etc. I also let the HR woman know that they are dangerously close to violating ERISA laws because of it, that are federal. You know you are in trouble when the HR person is "not really sure" who is in charge of finance. And we are a HUGE company... it should not be very difficult. Supposedly because of our recent merger they are having problems sorting it out etc. Sorry... but that is not really my problem here. I even asked if I loose confidence in the companies ability to fund my 401k, can they take the money out, give it to me, and I will hand it over to Fidelity personally... That really got her attention! It probably does not show through on this posting, but I was extremely calm, and pleaseant though all of this. Repeated many times... not an attack, or anger directed at anyone... just the problem itself. We will see what might come of it...

Glad you are pursuing this, but just FYI, I found SEVERAL sites indicating the Dept of Labor guideline is 15th of the month FOLLOWING the month funds would otherwise be available <payday>, so that's a minimum of 15 days. This surprised me a bit, but here is one of the sources which is from 2005.........When 401(k) Contributions Go MIA

[armor99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz4cash Glad you are pursuing this, but just FYI, I found SEVERAL sites indicating the Dept of Labor guideline is 15th of the month FOLLOWING the month funds would otherwise be available <payday>, so that's a minimum of 15 days. This surprised me a bit, but here is one of the sources which is from 2005.........When 401(k) Contributions Go MIA

Thanks for the info.... you have got to love it when you go visit your HR folks. They have the really nice offices reserved for execs, special parking spots, and the reality is.... most are completely clueless. If you are an HR person you should be fully versed in all of the federal guidlines etc. Or at least heard of them.

[trirod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor99 Wow.... thanks for the info Tripod. I looked at the ERISA guidlines and did not find anything like that. Can you find me where the 3 day rules are posted?

I'm not sure if they're posted anywhere, because the offical language is "as soon as possible". My understanding (from people who have been subject to DOL audits) is that the DOL's interpretation is that "as soon as possible" means no more than 3 days for companies with sophisticated payroll systems.

[DangerMouse]

I think you will find that it is the 15th of the month after. Your employer can't be breaching any law, because if they were it would have been caught by the Plan Administrator. If so, your company would have received notification of how much each individual missed out on by not having their contributions paid on time and they would have been required to make up the shortfall.

It is mission impossible for your contributions to hit your account the day you get paid. I think some of you need a reality check. Even with online transfer, we have to submit the file, it has to come back as verified, we then have to submit payment, which if after a certain does not process the same day. The funds do not necessarily transfer to the recipient's account the same day either.

armor99, if I was your HR person and I had to put up with your complaints which by law are non-valid, by now I would certainly have you on my ****-list and I wouldn't be looking to do you any favours. I would be thinking that you had no work to do and had nothing better to do than worry about your 401k contributions. What you have to remember is it is HR who have input on how a plan should be made up. If they think it is too much trouble for them, they can easily influence vesting periods, matching contributions etc. so it might actually be worth your while to be nice to them.

[DangerMouse]

Meeting Your Fiduciary Responsibilities

From the above link

Employee Contributions
If a plan provides for salary reductions from employees’ paychecks for contribution to the plan (such as in a 401(k) plan), then the employer must deposit the contributions in a timely manner. The law requires that participant contributions be deposited in the plan as soon as it is reasonably possible to segregate them from the company’s assets, but no later than the 15th business day of the month following the payday. If employers can reasonably make the deposits sooner, they need to do so.

[jazz4cash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerMouse It is mission impossible for your contributions to hit your account the day you get paid. I think some of you need a reality check. Even with online transfer, we have to submit the file, it has to come back as verified, we then have to submit payment, which if after a certain does not process the same day. The funds do not necessarily transfer to the recipient's account the same day either.

DM
You seem to have far more knowledge about the process than I do, but I have to take major exception to this statement.....is it REALLY unrealistic for an employee to expect a quick and accurate execution of these transfers on payday? Everyone I know expects thier Direct Deposit to hit thier checking accounts ON TIME. Some of us work within payroll systems that lag by several days from the actual pay period end date already. My mega-corp employer HR dept has been absolutely fantastic at getting my funds into my 401k as well as Direct Deposits into checking accounts at two different banks on time every payday. I can't recall ever having a problem in almost 30 years...so I KNOW it CAN be done. At the very least, the system should be consistent and reliable......OK, so call me spoiled!

[armor99]

DM
Over two weeks late is hardly what I would call timely. And you know... if it was always (give or take a day) two weeks, I would be fine with that as well. It is the eratic and haphazzard nature of it that I have a problem with. Futhermore, I consider my 401k part of my paycheck (it IS part of my paycheck), and as such, I expect it to be paid to me in a timely manner. If any other part of my paycheck was late, missing, had to wait a week or so for, that would be be a reason to go to HR, but not for the 401k? As I stated in other posts, I expect a certain minimum from people, and from the company that I work for. One of the things that I expect, is to be paid on time. Should I show up to work in a non-timely fashion? Perhaps only 30 hours this week instead of 40. Maybe I should switch my hours around and come in later (not a morning person)? I am not here to be loved, nor do I view my place of employment as my family. I try to be as pleasent as I can to everyone, and I am friendly to everyone. But if at any time my employer forgets why I am here, then they need to be reminded. Not in a nasty vindictive way.... but certainly in an assertive manner.
To be honest, I knew I was in trouble at this place from the first month I joined in. As part of my hiring agreement, I was offered a signing bonus after completing 30 days. The first month came and went, and that bonus was not present in my paycheck. I even gave them them another week without saying anything to get their act together. After that... I had to go to HR and actually chase "my own money"! This is not the proper way to conduct a business. It was interesting to note that HR was fairly unconcerned, but the Director of Engineering here (bosses...bosses..boss) got wind of it... and was fuming. I think it is always neccessary to be nice and pleasent to everyone in a business setting, but at the same time you need to never loose your focus on what is important, and what is not.

[trirod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerMouse Meeting Your Fiduciary Responsibilities From the above link ....but no later than the 15th business day of the month following the payday. If employers can reasonably make the deposits sooner, they need to do so.

The bit I've bolded is the important part, not the 15th business day.