Join Early Retirement Today
View Poll Results: Do you typically pay off credit card debt at the end of the month?
Yes - I typically pay off credit card(s) balances at the end of the month. 214 91.06%
No - I often have a balance on my credit card(s) balances and pay interest. 13 5.53%
N/A - I do not use credit cards for transactions or credit. 8 3.40%
Voters: 235. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2009, 09:10 PM   #101
Moderator Emeritus
bssc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mews View Post
bssc, I own a coop apartment in NYC. My annual insurance is $289.00 / yr. Doing a major dance to save $15.00 or so - not cost-efficient for me.

ta,
mew
Not bad, makes perfect sense.
__________________
Angels danced on the day that you were born.
bssc is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-10-2009, 05:32 AM   #102
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 6,256
When Cash Is Scarce, There’s Comfort in Miles

"First, the returns on loyalty are always positive, as long as you don’t spend needlessly just to earn rewards or carry a balance on your credit cards. After all, earning card rewards worth 2 percent still leaves you far behind financially if you’re paying 20 percent in interest."

"Also, making an investment in patronizing particular companies in exchange for rewards of some sort gives you some measure of control. As long as the airlines or retailers don’t eliminate or eviscerate their programs and the card company is willing to extend you credit, you control how much you spend with whom and your ultimate return. Stocks and bonds don’t work that way, alas."

"And even if you’re not a big spender at this moment, that doesn’t mean you can’t play the loyalty game. Cashing in every reward you earned in 2008 or before, when you might have been spending or traveling more, will allow you to spend less now. Or give yourself a treat you could not otherwise afford."

"Meanwhile, earning a penny or two every time you spend a dollar in 2009, say by putting more of your expenses on a card that earns money back, is another way to make every cent count when times are tough."
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 06:00 AM   #103
Recycles dryer sheets
MovingtotheCove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 153
We pay everything we can on cc but pay them off in full each month. Easier record keeping as many have discussed. Easier to keep to a budget than simply having cash out of pocket with no real tracking. Also the rewards...in 2008 racked up in cash rewards right at $3K. This is tax free money and able to be considered as a discount on purchases as we see it.
MovingtotheCove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 09:25 AM   #104
Administrator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingtotheCove View Post
We pay everything we can on cc but pay them off in full each month. Easier record keeping as many have discussed. Easier to keep to a budget than simply having cash out of pocket with no real tracking. Also the rewards...in 2008 racked up in cash rewards right at $3K. This is tax free money and able to be considered as a discount on purchases as we see it.
At 3% cash back your CC spending must be in the order of $100K last year. I expect that is a touch over the average for the members on this forum
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 09:40 AM   #105
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,599
$100K in federal, state, local and property taxes isn't uncommon for 2 child-free earners these days. At 3 per cent cash back [what card offers that?] perhaps MTTC is finding it worthwhile to pay taxes with the CC?

Amethyst
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 09:59 AM   #106
Administrator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
$100K in federal, state, local and property taxes isn't uncommon for 2 child-free earners these days. At 3 per cent cash back [what card offers that?] perhaps MTTC is finding it worthwhile to pay taxes with the CC?

Amethyst
If I could pay my taxes by CC with no additional fees then I would but I'm not aware you could do that.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 10:04 AM   #107
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
If I could pay my taxes by CC with no additional fees then I would but I'm not aware you could do that.
Correct. In many jurisdictions there is an option to pay property taxes with a credit card, but there's usually a 2.5% to 3% fee for doing it, which means it's generally not worth doing for rewards or cash back at all.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 10:04 AM   #108
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,396
Although I am generally debt averse, I think credit cards are useful tools that have many advantages over other forms of payment, including cash and debit cards:

1) By charging almost everything to my credit card, I don't have to worry about carrying around large amounts of cash. I spend several thousand per month, and I would not feel comfortable taking thousands of dollars out of the credit union at the beginning of every month. For one thing, I would be concerned about the risk of losing the money, and the risk of being the victim of a robbery or theft. The alternative is to make regular visits to an ATM machine, but I would prefer not to do that either because every time I visit an ATM machine, I run the risk (albeit small) of being a crime victim. Besides, every visit to the ATM/credit union/bank takes time which can be inconvenient. The time/gas/inconvenience/risk of crime that I avoid by not running to an ATM every other day is worth using a credit card. And what if I run out of money and there is no ATM nearby? What if the ATM charges me a fee? Also, I have heard of some stand alone ATMs stealing your bank information and cleaning out your account.

2) By charging almost everything to my credit card, I get an itemized and dated record of my spending. That has come in handy for me many times.

3) Debit cards are risky because they are linked directly to your checking account. Every time you use them, the merchant (or a dishonest employee of the merchant) has your checking account number and can access your account. Also, if you lose your debit card, someone can take it to Walmart and buy stuff before you are aware that the card is lost, and before you report it as lost, and the money is taken directly out of your account. (This actually happened to someone I know) You then have to fill out forms and ask your bank to credit your account, and this process can take several weeks, assuming they agree to credit your account at all. What if they don't? Think about it. This is different than losing your credit card. If you lose your credit card, you simply dispute any unauthorize charges and don't pay them. Take a look at this article which explains the differences between credit and debit cards, and how much more risky debit cards are:

Debit card fraud grows

4) Some credit cards pay you to use them, in the form of cash back or points. This comes from the 1-3% that all merchants pay for the privilege of taking the credit cards. All of us pay more for goods and services because of these fees, whether we pay by cash or not. So if you make a conscious decision not to use credit, you are choosing not to play the game and get your share of the available money. That's your choice, but I choose to play, and I get several hundred dollars per year in cash back as free money.

5) When I travel, I don't have to worry about taking thousands of dollars of currency and planning ahead for every dollar that I spend, and running the risk of theft or loss of that currency.

6) If I have a dispute with a merchant, American Express will step in and use their clout on my behalf, and they will not force me to pay until the dispute is revolved. I have only done this a few times in my life, and in each case, American Express removed the charge from my account. Try doing that with cash or a debit card.

7) American Express gives me additional warrantly protection and insurance protection on certain purchases or services. E.g. they provide insurance protection for rental cars in some cases.
JustCurious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 10:11 AM   #109
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 6,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCurious View Post
Also, if you lose your debit card, someone can take it to Walmart and buy stuff and the money is taken directly out of your account. (This actually happened to someone I know) You then have to fill out forms and ask your bank to credit your account, and this process can take several weeks, assuming they agree to credit your account at all. What if they don't? Think about it.
Even worse, if you keep a minimum amount in the account (as you should) and have written checks to be drawn on the account. If the check or (most likely) checks hit the bank after the "someone" empties the account but before you can react, you really have a "can of worms" to contend with in the form of "insufficient funds" returns.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 10:31 AM   #110
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 7,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingtotheCove View Post
We pay everything we can on cc but pay them off in full each month. Easier record keeping as many have discussed. Easier to keep to a budget than simply having cash out of pocket with no real tracking. Also the rewards...in 2008 racked up in cash rewards right at $3K. This is tax free money and able to be considered as a discount on purchases as we see it.

For some reason i find this funny - aren't you free-of-clothing folk? If so surely a card is easier to deal with than change and multiple paper bills - American Express: What's on your lanyard?
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 10:54 AM   #111
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W Just West of Woman Hollering Creek
Posts: 6,671
Quote:
I like playing the game. I charge every purchase I can, I get to wait about a month to pay for those things, and then... they give me money!
I'm with you and what actually makes this so fun is that it is financed by others who choose to NOT pay off their balance each month, thinking that a CC is some kind of budget-controlling asset.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 11:18 AM   #112
Moderator Emeritus
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Correct. In many jurisdictions there is an option to pay property taxes with a credit card, but there's usually a 2.5% to 3% fee for doing it, which means it's generally not worth doing for rewards or cash back at all.
In my parish, there is a charge of 2.67% for paying property taxes with a credit card. So, for my $864 property tax bill, I would have had to pay an extra $23. (The same would have been true had I paid it with my debit card, though). I mailed it in. I would guess that the cost of the check, stamp, and envelope came to $1 or less.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.

Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 11:27 AM   #113
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 6,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
In my parish, there is a charge of 2.67% for paying property taxes with a credit card. So, for my $864 property tax bill, I would have had to pay an extra $23. (The same would have been true had I paid it with my debit card, though). I mailed it in. I would guess that the cost of the check, stamp, and envelope came to $1 or less.
And, I wonder, what the cost to the Parish is to physically handle all that paperwork -- opening envelope, endorsing the check, posting the entry, etc. Can that be done for less than 2.67%?

On the other hand, it does keep unemployment down.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 11:44 AM   #114
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W Just West of Woman Hollering Creek
Posts: 6,671
Quote:
In my parish, there is a charge of 2.67% for paying property taxes with a credit card.
Same here.

Also our water and power comes from companies that are linked to the city and actually produce income for the local g'ment and they also do not allow free CC payment.

As a tax paying citizen , I'm ok with this, and pay by check or ACH rather than increasting their expenses and probably/possibly holding down local taxes.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 11:50 AM   #115
Administrator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeyd View Post
Same here.

Also our water and power comes from companies that are linked to the city and actually produce income for the local g'ment and they also do not allow free CC payment.

As a tax paying citizen , I'm ok with this, and pay by check or ACH rather than increasting their expenses and probably/possibly holding down local taxes.

Same here - that is why I was surprised at MTTC racking up so much on the CC as I don't pay by CC if there is a fee.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 12:13 PM   #116
Full time employment: Posting here.
Lakedog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
In my parish, there is a charge of 2.67% for paying property taxes with a credit card. So, for my $864 property tax bill, I would have had to pay an extra $23. (The same would have been true had I paid it with my debit card, though). I mailed it in. I would guess that the cost of the check, stamp, and envelope came to $1 or less.
There is no charge in my county for paying with a credit card (property taxes, tags, boat registration, drivers license, etc) so I take full advantage. Electric and cable are my only expenses that I can't pay by CC, and I have those set up for auto pay from checking.
Lakedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Clarification....
Old 01-10-2009, 03:00 PM   #117
Recycles dryer sheets
MovingtotheCove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 153
Clarification....

Let me clarify...the cards we are earning with are used for all expenses we possibly can without paying a fee, as some have suggested. This includes utility bills, cell phone bills, property insurance, as well as groceries, etc. Yes, we also can pay some taxes with the card as well as maintenance fees on some timehare weeks we own. Our card earns 5% vs. 3%. Also we did put a portion of a car on in the past year that the dealer allowed a % of the total due to be charged for our convenience. In addition to this we have some college fees and very significant donations to charities on the card. Also I believe we did have a carry over $$$'s earned balance at year end that came from part of 2007. Just to estimate I'm guessing we had about $45K to $50K in calendar year 2008 and the rest came from the last quarter of calendar year 2007. In the end we find use for as much as possible (without fees) and consider this free money to be a bonus coming to us vs. us paying interest to the card issuer as many do each month. Hope this fills in some blanks....oh, by the way.....a lanyard is a great idea!
MovingtotheCove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 03:02 PM   #118
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakedog View Post
There is no charge in my county for paying with a credit card (property taxes, tags, boat registration, drivers license, etc) so I take full advantage. Electric and cable are my only expenses that I can't pay by CC, and I have those set up for auto pay from checking.
My situation is 180 degrees from yours. My electric, satellite TV and phone bills are set up to auto charge my CC. The county charges a 3% fee to use a CC for property tax payments so I pay that bill by check.
__________________
Numbers is hard
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 03:03 PM   #119
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingtotheCove View Post
.oh, by the way.....a lanyard is a great idea!
Be sure to hang it around your neck...
__________________
Numbers is hard
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 03:10 PM   #120
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCurious View Post
Although I am generally debt averse, I think credit cards are useful tools that have many advantages over other forms of payment, including cash and debit cards:

3) Debit cards are risky because they are linked directly to your checking account. ... if you lose your debit card, someone can take it to Walmart and buy stuff before you are aware that the card is lost, and before you report it as lost, and the money is taken directly out of your account.

.... Think about it. This is different than losing your credit card. If you lose your credit card, you simply dispute any unauthorize charges and don't pay them. Take a look at this article which explains the differences between credit and debit cards, and how much more risky debit cards are:

Debit card fraud grows
JC, thanks for this - it got me thinking...

My ATM card is also a debit card. I never give it much thought, as I never use it as a debit card, just to access the ATM once every couple months for a bit of cash ( as I said, I charge almost everything), or to make a deposit. But, I carry that debit card in my wallet, so if it did get lost, I could be at this higher risk. Not good.

However, reading the article, it's not soooo bad...

Quote:
With credit cards, liability for unauthorized transactions is limited to $50. But since most card issuers have zero liability policies, customers typically aren't on the hook for anything.


With debit cards, liability is limited to $50 only if customers notify their financial institution within two business days after realizing their card has been lost or stolen. After that, liability is capped at $500 if suspicious activity is reported within 60 days of receiving a statement. Beyond 60 days, the sky's the limit.
So most likely, I would notice and report it within 2 days of 'realizing' my card was lost or stolen (OK, I'm an honest person, but who is going to say "I lost it two months ago, just calling now!"?). So a $50 max hit. And $500 max if I was near brain dead.

Further, it sounds like the companies are actually being less restrictive:


Quote:
The good news is financial institutions generally are more lenient than the regulations require, ...



Most financial institutions cover their customers' entire loss, "unless they are really concerned that the consumer is not acting in good faith," he said.


In addition, Visa and MasterCard have zero liability policies on debit card purchases processed through their networks. Those types of transactions, using cards with the Visa or MasterCard logo, require authorization with a signature instead of a personal identification number.
I should take another look at my CU fine print though, but they have always been 'good guys', so I they are probably in line with this.


-ERD50
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
credit, debt


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Your unsecured (credit card) debt dies when you die (usually) JustCurious FIRE and Money 77 11-22-2010 09:05 PM
Pre Paid Credit Card/ Gas Card or Credit Card nphx Other topics 4 04-29-2008 01:04 PM
Best Bonus for Credit Card Expenitures -Frequent Flyer cards or Cash-back card? ScaredtoQuit FIRE and Money 19 04-21-2007 03:29 PM
Secured debt (HELOC) vs Unsecured debt (credit card) Sue J FIRE and Money 6 03-07-2007 10:02 PM
Credit card debt WRBT FIRE and Money 2 09-04-2005 01:54 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:53 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.