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Old 12-07-2013, 10:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Yes, why don't the credit card companies tell us about this, or make it EZ to eliminate the code?
-ERD50
Most places I've been online don't ask for the CVC, some do but not all.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by seraphim View Post
We travel constantly and I only ever use a debit card.
STOP DOING THIS IMMEDIATELY! Using a debit card, especially on the road, is a bad idea!

Your debit card offers you far fewer protections in the event of fraud, and as was pointed out, it is likely connected directly to your personal accounts. If someone is able to make charges to your account, and someone tries to cash a check that you wrote, it could bounce, and you will have to deal with it.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:08 PM   #23
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You really can't be too careful these days. I routinely examine credit card readers (such as at gas stations) as closely as I can, but I might only be fooling myself. Credit Card Skimming | Credit Card Skimmers - Consumer Reports News All About Skimmers — Krebs on Security Daily Kos: Beware "New" Credit Card Skimmers Credit card fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That was interesting. I guess I am fooling myself too. I always grab the reader and make sure it is secure and not loose or flimsy. But that might not be near enough. I am going to start covering the inputting of my pin.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:10 PM   #24
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This would require US cards to have a chip in them. Card fraud is way down in Europe since the introduction of chips, although there's always the possibility to steal the number, expiration date, and CVC code from the back, then use it online. (I scratch off the CVC code from my card and keep it noted separately in code form; you never need it when shopping in the real world.) We use our PIN code instead of a signature, which means that poorly-paid clerks don't also find themselves having to determine, with no training, if your signature is correct or not. We also still have ATM fraud, with skimmer devices, but that's because our ATMs have to be able to accept magnetic stripe-only cards, which only non-Europeans have. Come on US banks, this is the 21st century! (European retailers either have a swipe attachment on the hand-held reader, or a separate machine, sometimes even an old manual clack-clack carbon paper thing, to handle prehistoric cards from technological backwaters such as, um, the USA.)
What is the resistance in the US from using chips? If it is due to cost, wouldn't the savings from decreased fraud make up for it?
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeNFO View Post
STOP DOING THIS IMMEDIATELY! Using a debit card, especially on the road, is a bad idea!

Your debit card offers you far fewer protections in the event of fraud, and as was pointed out, it is likely connected directly to your personal accounts. If someone is able to make charges to your account, and someone tries to cash a check that you wrote, it could bounce, and you will have to deal with it.
I refuse to accept a debit card for that reason.
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:17 AM   #26
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What is the resistance in the US from using chips? If it is due to cost, wouldn't the savings from decreased fraud make up for it?
I'd guess it comes from the same objection to the chips in passports. People are afraid someone can just walk by you and read the chip.
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:35 AM   #27
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I'd guess it comes from the same objection to the chips in passports. People are afraid someone can just walk by you and read the chip.
It's the merchants who have to upgrade their point-of-sale equipment.

But they will be required to by 2016 anyway.
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Old 12-08-2013, 02:00 PM   #28
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[QUOTE=mn54;1388296]
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Originally Posted by BigNick View Post
This would require US cards to have a chip in them.

We just got back from europe and used our credit cards with no problem and we do not have the cards with the chip. They all used the hand held device at your table. cards never left our sight. I wish they would do that in the usa.
+1

Never had a problem with hand held machines in Europe yet, even with the regular US chipless cards. The only problems from not having a chip-pin card I have experienced with various unmanned ticket machines at train, bus and subway stations. Probably the same goes for pretty much any types of vending machines in Europe these days.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:54 AM   #29
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My debit card was skimmed this year when I used an ATM. In my bank's own lobby, maybe ten feet from and in full view of the receptionist. Thieves put a gizmo in the card reader and everyone who used it had their card info used shortly thereafter to withdraw money at an ATM some 20 miles away. Pretty brazen of the thieves, pretty embarrassing for the bank (which caught and reversed the fraudulent withdrawals and then contacted me).
WOW - that is super scary ! I only use my ATM card inside a Bank - I thought that was safe ! apparently not !!!
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:02 AM   #30
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What is the resistance in the US from using chips? If it is due to cost, wouldn't the savings from decreased fraud make up for it?
My new FIA AMEX has one.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:27 PM   #31
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An unchipped card will work in the US or Canada if a human is present to swipe the card. Sometimes the line to get to that human may be very long. But, when you are at a small train station outside of rural Hicksburg and the only ticket seller is a machine that won't recognize your unchipped card, that can be a problem. That is why I always carry some local cash.
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:23 PM   #32
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The Point of Sale devices will allow cards without chips to be swiped. There is nothing different about the transaction from what you see in the US except that it takes place at your table. The same technology is in use in Canada.
The handheld devices used at the table can't all take a swipe card yet. Sometimes you have to go to the central register or bar and have the card swiped on the base station. But things are certainly improving. It's just a shame for US store clerks that they are still in theory expected to check signatures. DW's signature is still with her maiden name although her married name is printed on her cards, and in places where you have to sign this sometimes gets her a query even though her signature on the card matches what she just wrote pretty much perfectly.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:47 PM   #33
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It's just a shame for US store clerks that they are still in theory expected to check signatures. DW's signature is still with her maiden name although her married name is printed on her cards, and in places where you have to sign this sometimes gets her a query
DW feels strongly about this issue.
In the signature block on all her credit cards, she simply prints:
ASK FOR ID

That has worked well for her for many years.
The sad part is that she only gets asked for ID about half the time.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:43 PM   #34
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I refuse to accept a debit card for that reason.
+1

Too many people don't understand the significance of the the protections that are in place for credit vs. debit cards. We use cc's all the time. Don't have a debit card, don't want one.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #35
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I think the signature just says that you acknowledge agreement to the terms and conditions of the cardholder agreement. I don't think it is for identification.

Different merchants have different policies about what to look at. Some never even see the card, so they can't be expected to compare signatures. ... and the merchants don't want to slow down the transaction.

If you think it is a good idea, then write SEE ID. Otherwise . . .

Should you sign your credit card or write 'See ID' on it
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:07 PM   #36
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I think the signature just says that you acknowledge agreement to the terms and conditions of the cardholder agreement. I don't think it is for identification.

Different merchants have different policies about what to look at. Some never even see the card, so they can't be expected to compare signatures. ... and the merchants don't want to slow down the transaction.

If you think it is a good idea, then write SEE ID. Otherwise . . .

Should you sign your credit card or write 'See ID' on it
Interesting, I've never signed any card up front. Even if I do you can't see anything in 2 days. A couple of times I was asked, I signed and proved id. But 2 days later that little strip was clear again.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:01 PM   #37
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We travel abroad frequently, and I admire the European system of handheld readers at the table. As opposed to some stranger scampering off with our CC to do who knows what. Only whip out the debit to get cash, and then am careful. It boggles my mind to be in the middle of nowhere in South Africa or the like, and go to this machine in front of some nondescript building and voila! Get a handful of local cash!

We only use the debit for cash. I know folks who have had trouble getting their cash refunded to their account when fraud occurred with their debit card. The protections are so much better with cc. And, I'm not aware of any substantial rewards with debit. Admittedly I had not cashed in my points on my Fidelity Retirement Rewards Amex for a few years which is what we charge everything we can to. This afternoon I did. Over $2300 cash! I don't care to carry different cards for different rewards, I'll just take the 2% cash back any day. Carry the Amex for everything we can, and a MasterCard for those that won't take the Amex. Keep life simple. I'll bet I spend no more than $50 cash a month.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:59 AM   #38
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This would require US cards to have a chip in them. Card fraud is way down in Europe since the introduction of chips, although there's always the possibility to steal the number, expiration date, and CVC code from the back, then use it online. (I scratch off the CVC code from my card and keep it noted separately in code form; you never need it when shopping in the real world.) We use our PIN code instead of a signature, which means that poorly-paid clerks don't also find themselves having to determine, with no training, if your signature is correct or not.
I don't remember where I was shopping last week, but I did have to enter the CVC code from my card on the swipe pad for verification rather than giving my signature. Maybe some US companies are consolidating their on-line POS systems with their brick and mortar systems?
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:09 AM   #39
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I don't remember where I was shopping last week, but I did have to enter the CVC code from my card on the swipe pad for verification rather than giving my signature. Maybe some US companies are consolidating their on-line POS systems with their brick and mortar systems?
Don't know, never been asked for it other than online. My AMEX from Fidelity frequently ask me to enter my zip code.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:57 AM   #40
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We're on a road trip and we just got a message from our primary credit card to call the fraud number. Somebody charged $0.01 to a clothing company and then $498 to an electronics retailer yesterday and so, natch, we are now down one credit card. This seems to happen every time we travel. I guess that we are going to switch to old-fashioned cash for restaurants from now on. Any other thoughts? We are carrying a second card and we are smart enough not to use the debit card in anything other than automated card readers personally or while we watch. I wish restaurants in the US would get hand held card readers like the Europeans use.
Never once had a problem w/ CC fraud and I charge everything I can and
travel a lot. Guess I am overdue.

Have 3 diff. cards just in case.
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