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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-05-2005, 04:43 AM   #61
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha

. I have thought about buying a small greenhouse, maybe 6 x 8, to grow veggies because our season is so short and to start annuals.
Hi Martha,

I guess you can buy anything these days. Yesterday I saw a small greenhouse maybe 6x8 complete with windows, potting table, etc. in the middle of the floor at Sam's Club. Probably comes packaged in a few lagre boxes...some assembly required.

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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-05-2005, 12:34 PM   #62
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Our "orchard supply hardware" (a hardware-only subsidiary of Sears) is selling a pop-up greenhouse (thick semi-transparent walls) for $128. I was thinking of getting one as it might let me stretch my tomato and basil season to year round.

Its made by "flowerhouse". I see some different sized ones selling at amazon and home depots web site among others. I think that $128 price is a closeout as nobody around here will need a greenhouse until about december.
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-06-2005, 07:34 AM   #63
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Our city has a compost site and sells it for $15 a truck load, or $20 if they load your truck or trailer. Great deal and the quality is good.*
Holy snipies! What a great price...will have to see it that's available here. Thank you Martha!
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-06-2005, 07:38 AM   #64
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Gee BUM and TH, now I am looking for greenhouses. I am starting to feel I am spending more money, not less, because of this site.
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-06-2005, 08:11 AM   #65
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by - SG
Apparently God doesn't make that deal with those of us who live in Arizona.* I have to depend on Roosevelt Water Conservation District for the water.*
I just got back from a week-long trip to Illinois and got home to a freshly mowed lawn.*
SG, What's up with those lawns in Phoenix anyway?* And all that watering, and flood irrigation...it is the desert.* I guess I've never understood why people come to the desert because they like it and then try to make it look like, oh, Martha's place in MN.

Your thoughts.
Judy
in Tucson, with decomposed granite and a bit of drip irrigation
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-06-2005, 12:33 PM   #66
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Our trash collection has a 'green bin' you put all your lawn and yards waste into; in return you can go and take as much of the composted material from the trash companies pile as you wish for free (within reason). My last trash company had the same deal.

Some shortcomings: the local compost pile caught fire something like a year ago and they just managed to put it out. Sometimes people get carried away with wanting the 'really good stuff' way out in the compost bog and they either get stuck in it and have to get winched out or their truck sinks into it up to the door handles...

I think these are the same people who go pick up a "one price" gravel load and have the guy pour "just a little more" into their pickup truck. Swell, you got an extra $4 worth of gravel and broke your truck frame or suspension. :
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-09-2005, 02:41 AM   #67
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWV
SG, What's up with those lawns in Phoenix anyway?* And all that watering, and flood irrigation...it is the desert.* I guess I've never understood why people come to the desert because they like it and then try to make it look like, oh, Martha's place in MN.

Your thoughts.
Judy
in Tucson, with decomposed granite and a bit of drip irrigation
Hi Judy,

It seems like every mid-Westerner on the planet decides to move to Arizona and bring their favorite water-loving plants with them. Then they decide to turn a sprinkler system on them at noon every day throughout the Summer. The result is increased humidity and an astronomical pollen count.

But flood irrigation is not really bad. The flood irrigation avoids the costly and inefficient process of making the water potable, then the cities are able to reclaim the excess and return it to ground water -- without turning it into a fine mist and squirting it into the air. It actually does quite a bit of good for the Arizona water situation.
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-09-2005, 12:29 PM   #68
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

I went the same way here. Tiny little patch of grass that I may try to kill at some point, the rest is chip over landscaping cloth, 20' shrubs all around the perimeter in front of the fence, and a bunch of shrubs and shrublets sprinkled around, all on a drip system. I've been thinking of replacing the small grass patch with buffalo grass, blue grama or a reiter thyme.

Some great low-water, low maintenance ideas at www.highcountrygardens.com Their catalog includes some garden/landscaping layouts numbered with their plants.
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-09-2005, 10:16 PM   #69
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by - SG

* The result is increased humidity and an astronomical pollen count.
Then there are those who get all up in arms about West Nile Virus but continue to put in lawns and water like crazy and want everyone to buy into the wonder of spraying for mosquitos.* Oiy!

We have met the enemy...

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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-09-2005, 11:36 PM   #70
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

JWV,

I've noticed that a manifest destiny type attitude pervades some circles, as if to cede even a little common sense to the environment would admit defeat in our attempt to "bend nature to our will". But just like retirement planning, most people are too myopic to see more than ten feet in front of them or one month into the future.
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 07:08 AM   #71
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

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Originally Posted by laurencewill
JWV,

I've noticed that a manifest destiny type attitude pervades some circles, as if to cede even a little common sense to the environment would admit defeat in our attempt to "bend nature to our will".* But just like retirement planning, most people are too myopic to see more than ten feet in front of them or one month into the future.*
This is one area where I side with the sterotypical left leaning tree
huggers. The rape of the environment is pretty disheartening.
However, in my usual cynical fashion, I don't believe it will get better,
only worse. Common sense is in short supply.

JG
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 11:19 AM   #72
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

I think its a little less concern about being seen as 'bending to the environment' and a little more concern about bending over for the special interest dollars.

If I see one more moron say that global warming "needs more study" or that pollution isnt really that bad, i'm gonna puke. As it is, we've had to cut back on eating fish, wont spend as much time out in the sun, and we're already starting to consider medium term plans to move somewhere that has cleaner air and water.

It doesnt help to see someone like Dennis Miller (who I used to think was a fairly smart guy) say things like "hey, its just another degree since we were kids...so what...my grandkids are going to have to get used to 2 more degrees?". No Dennis, your grandkids are going to have to develop gills because half the landmass is going to be under water... :
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 01:59 PM   #73
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Gee BUM and TH, now I am looking for greenhouses. I am starting to feel I am spending more money, not less, because of this site.
Found a nice looking mini-greenhouse. I might just get one of these...
http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2....rod_id=1180545
$59 + $2 ship. Looks like its the perfect thing for early starting herbs, vegetables and flowers.

They have a couple of bigger ones too, but this one looks like it'll take the strong winds we have here in early spring.
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 02:57 PM   #74
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Quote:
It doesnt help to see someone like Dennis Miller (who I used to think was a fairly smart guy) say things like "hey, its just another degree since we were kids...so what...my grandkids are going to have to get used to 2 more degrees?".
I hear you, th, this guy has really disappointed me lately.* *On the other hand, I have some bay-front property out here I've been worried about.* Maybe he'd like to take it off my hands.

Caroline
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 05:15 PM   #75
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

TH, I have something similar to the overstock coldframe/greenhouse that I made myself. I took pieces of pvc and made a rectangle to lay on the ground. I took wire and made half round hoops, sticking the ends into the long sides of the rectangle. Covered the whole thing with plastic. Works ok for starting plants in the ground.

I have been looking for something bigger, probably with dual polycarbonate walls. Everything I have seen is too expensive to justify.

But it is spring here. The forsynthia is finally in bloom:



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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 05:44 PM   #76
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Martha, that sounds like a good rig. Could you describe it in more detail? What size pipe? What kind and size of wire? Did you drill holes in the pipe to receive the wire? How wide did you make it?

Thanks for any info.

Mikey
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 06:31 PM   #77
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rok
Re: Global warming

I am a big advocate of preserving our environment...however, the causes of the current warming trend are uncertain. *The fact that this is occuring during the industrial revolution does not prove cause and effect. * *

Over geologic history there have been many episodes of global warming and cooling (ie ice ages) which clearly had nothing to do with human activity. There is a popular misconception that such climate variations are abnormal. *Natural systems flutuate, with or without our help. *Sea levels rise and fall time and again over long periods of time. This is well known.

The point is, such climatic changes may not be "our fault" or even preventable. *There are worse things to worry about. *How about N. Korea, or mercury pollution? *Lets focus on things we can prevent...burning fossil fuels is currently not one of them.

Oops, didn't mean to post a rant.
I don't think there are any serious scientist who question the existance or cause of global warming at this point. Ten years ago, there was still some question. . . but not today . . . not in any serious science circles. Worse than that, we now understand that we have made about a 100 year committment to warming. In other words, if today we stopped producing greenhouse gases, the warming effects we have started would continue for about 100 years.

Scientists studying this today are not debating the existance or cause of global warming, they are trying to understand the long term consequences of it.
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 07:21 PM   #78
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

SG,
In the 70's no serious serioius scientiest questioned the idea that the world was getting colder.

We are very fortunate on this earth. The average temperatures of the last ice age were only a few degrees colder than the average temperaturs are now.
FROM
Newsweek
April 28, 1975 Studies
Facts & Figures
Selected Links
Weather
Health
The Cooling World

There are ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production– with serious political implications for just about every nation on Earth. The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps only 10 years from now. The regions destined to feel its impact are the great wheat-producing lands of Canada and the U.S.S.R. in the North, along with a number of marginally self-sufficient tropical areas – parts of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indochina and Indonesia – where the growing season is dependent upon the rains brought by the monsoon.

The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it. In England, farmers have seen their growing season decline by about two weeks since 1950, with a resultant overall loss in grain production estimated at up to 100,000 tons annually. During the same time, the average temperature around the equator has risen by a fraction of a degree – a fraction that in some areas can mean drought and desolation. Last April, in the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded, 148 twisters killed more than 300 people and caused half a billion dollars' worth of damage in 13 U.S. states.

To scientists, these seemingly disparate incidents represent the advance signs of fundamental changes in the world's weather. Meteorologists disagree about the cause and extent of the trend, as well as over its specific impact on local weather conditions. But they are almost unanimous in the view that the trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century. If the climatic change is as profound as some of the pessimists fear, the resulting famines could be catastrophic. “A major climatic change would force economic and social adjustments on a worldwide scale,” warns a recent report by the National Academy of Sciences, “because the global patterns of food production and population that have evolved are implicitly dependent on the climate of the present century.”

A survey completed last year by Dr. Murray Mitchell of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reveals a drop of half a degree in average ground temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere between 1945 and 1968. According to George Kukla of Columbia University, satellite photos indicated a sudden, large increase in Northern Hemisphere snow cover in the winter of 1971-72. And a study released last month by two NOAA scientists notes that the amount of sunshine reaching the ground in the continental U.S. diminished by 1.3% between 1964 and 1972.

To the layman, the relatively small changes in temperature and sunshine can be highly misleading. Reid Bryson of the University of Wisconsin points out that the Earth’s average temperature during the great Ice Ages was only about seven degrees lower than during its warmest eras – and that the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age average. Others regard the cooling as a reversion to the “little ice age” conditions that brought bitter winters to much of Europe and northern America between 1600 and 1900 – years when the Thames used to freeze so solidly that Londoners roasted oxen on the ice and when iceboats sailed the Hudson River almost as far south as New York City.

Just what causes the onset of major and minor ice ages remains a mystery. “Our knowledge of the mechanisms of climatic change is at least as fragmentary as our data,” concedes the National Academy of Sciences report. “Not only are the basic scientific questions largely unanswered, but in many cases we do not yet know enough to pose the key questions.”

Meteorologists think that they can forecast the short-term results of the return to the norm of the last century. They begin by noting the slight drop in overall temperature that produces large numbers of pressure centers in the upper atmosphere. These break up the smooth flow of westerly winds over temperate areas. The stagnant air produced in this way causes an increase in extremes of local weather such as droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons and even local temperature increases – all of which have a direct impact on food supplies.

“The world’s food-producing system,” warns Dr. James D. McQuigg of NOAA’s Center for Climatic and Environmental Assessment, “is much more sensitive to the weather variable than it was even five years ago.” Furthermore, the growth of world population and creation of new national boundaries make it impossible for starving peoples to migrate from their devastated fields, as they did during past famines.

Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality.

Reprinted from Financial Post - Canada, Jun 21, 2000
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 07:46 PM   #79
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Okey dokey. All super points and arguments.

Now what exactly is the downside of prarie dogging this and suggesting that all the pollution probably isnt doing us any favors, and start cutting our greenhouse gasses and reducing our oil/coal firing anyhow? That it reduces our dependency on that bastion of stability, the middle east, and gets us out of the backyards of the terrorists is just a plus to me.

Arguing the merits of is it or isnt it is scientifically interesting, but...uhh...so frickin what?
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs
Old 05-10-2005, 09:29 PM   #80
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Re: Cutting your expenses/trimming your costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
SG,
In the 70's no serious serioius scientiest* questioned the idea that the world was getting colder. . .
One Newsweek article from 1975 is hardly a consensus of scientists. In fact, the scientific study of global environment was a relatively new science in the 1970s. There was anything but consensus. Models and theory were emerging, but unproven. Computer simulations were primative by today's standards. There were those who anticipated and predicted global warming even then. And there were those who were not convinced.

As I said in my first post, as recently as about 10 years ago, there was still doubt in the scientific community about even the existence of global warming.

But I suspect this is going to be like the tobacco companies and cancer. Long after it is obvious to everyone with half a brain that we are indeed damaging the environment in ways that will be very detrimental, there will be a few people with PhDs working for the big poluting industries in the world denying it. They will proclaim that any direct link between the black smoke pouring out of their factories and the poor air quality is coincidental. They will deny that the chemicals they are pouring into the ground are linked in any provable way with the outbreak of 3-headed babies downstream. etc. Big companies with big $$'s will be able to find people with formal educational credentials to pretend to do science. And the non-scientific community that reads Newsweek and Time instead of professional journals to gain scientific knowledge is really not able to tell the difference.

As TH has pointed out, do we really need to debate the scientific basis of this to know that polution is not good?
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