Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 02:39 PM   #1
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 21
Day Trading

I would like to hear comments and experiences
regarding the day trading of securities.

From reading previous related posts I theorize this
group would come down on the negative side of this idea.

Anyone out there have any positive experiences. :
__________________

__________________
TK is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 02:44 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Day Trading

Very, very hard to make money doing this, as far as I can tell. By the time you pay commissions and spreads, you have to guess right pretty frequently to come out ahead. I would imagine that trading serial correlations, doing merger arb, buying and tendering, etc. would be a lot easier to make money at.
__________________

__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 02:49 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Re: Day Trading

Day-trading takes a lots of time and efforts to be successful. You need to go through a plenthora of financial news and info before the market opens and spend time after the market closes to anlalyze what you have learned.

No. Thank you.

Spanky
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 03:34 PM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Day Trading

About the only time I'm aware of that a good percentage of people doing this consistently made money was in the late 90's. You know, when almost anything you bought went up?
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 06:36 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Re: Day Trading

my comments = :P
__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 06:53 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Re: Day Trading

The best way to make money from day-trading is to spot stocks whose price pattern are of saw tooth or sinusoidal so that you can buy when they are low and sell when they are at their peaks. Since the patterns are repeatable, you can really make a killing.
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 08:12 PM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,318
Re: Day Trading

TK,
I come down on the negative side on this one. My feeling is it takes up far too much time, stresses you out, and has little chance to beat market averages with a pretty good chance of underperforming market averages. Plus all your gains are taxable at top rates. If this is your idea of a good thing to do in ER, then I'd suggest you spend more time brainstorming other things that you could do instead that would be more wholesome, beneficial and profitable.

Daytrading sounds like a lot of work at best, and something like dabbling in hard drugs at worst.
__________________
ER for 10 years; living off 4.3% of savings (and a few book royalties ;-)
ESRBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 08:22 PM   #8
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Day Trading

I've got a much simpler system for you that is easier to understand.

Go to a roulette table in Las Vegas and put $100 on Red. You have roughly a 50-50 chance of doubling your money or losing it all.

If you win repeat, if you lose, double your next bet to $200 on Red. If you win this time you have recouped your original $100 plus a $100 profit.

If you keep losing, keep doubling your bet until you win, and then revert back to your $100 bet.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 08:29 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Re: Day Trading

To make much, you'd have to buy/sell fairly large blocks (read lots o' dough) to not dilute your "earnings" with stuff like commissions, spreads, tax...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 09:06 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
retire@40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
Re: Day Trading

There are some freaks people who are professionals at this.* They read every financial magazine while watching financial channels on TV and surfing the financial websites.* I know some of these people who actually make a living doing this full time.* Most of the people I know that do millions of dollars in trades per year make or lose a few thousand, but more often lose.

It's one of the last "jobs" I would ever want.
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
retire@40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 09:55 PM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Re: Day Trading

Quote:
..It's one of the last "jobs" I would ever want.
It's not just a job, ... it's an adventure (as the Navy says). Some people really love the thrill of stock trading.
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 10:02 PM   #12
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,619
Re: Day Trading

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK
I would like to hear comments and experiences regarding the day trading of securities.

Anyone out there have any positive experiences. :
You can make up your own mind-- read "How I Trade For A Living" by Gary Smith. *(There's a financial media figure named Gary Smith, but this book's author is a different Gary Smith-- and a much nicer guy.) *Your local library might have a copy or you can read a good bit online here.

Gary is in his late 50s and has just semi-retired after day-trading for the last 30 years. *He made his living the hard way-- by earning it through trading mutual funds in his IRA. *The book is quite factual and it debunks the whole industry as well as the the thrill. *Gary's strengths are determination and an ability put his entire portfolio-- all 100%-- into a single investment if he believes it'll do well. *He made enough in junk bonds from 2000-2003 to call his own retirement.

Gary and other daytraders post over at Salil Gangal's FundVision Web site (http://www.fundvision.com/). *Try the "FVDB" to get a feel for their lifestyle. *I'll warn you that Salil does not appear to be forthcoming with his losses; all you ever hear about are his winning trades.

Another of Gary's strengths is the ability to work an indicator while watching to see if it doesn't work anymore. *He's a great teacher of how not to get emotionally involved or too dependent on your favorite tech analysis tricks.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 10:04 PM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,619
Re: Day Trading

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky
It's not just a job, ... it's an adventure (as the Navy says).
I think it's "Accelerate your life!" now...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-30-2005, 10:39 PM   #14
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 218
Re: Day Trading

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
I've got a much simpler system for you that is easier to understand.

Go to a roulette table in Las Vegas and put $100 on Red. You have roughly a 50-50 chance of doubling your money or losing it all.

If you win repeat, if you lose, double your next bet to $200 on Red. If you win this time you have recouped your original $100 plus a $100 profit.

If you keep losing, keep doubling your bet until you win, and then revert back to your $100 bet.
I've seen some pretty long streaks of one color or the other on the wheel and this is one reason they have maximum betting limits posted. But the point is valid. If you're going to gamble, why not have a little fun and get free drinks.
__________________
Life is good.
Beachbumz is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-31-2005, 04:15 PM   #15
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 61
Re: Day Trading

I actively trade around core positions if they make extended moves...I'll trim a few hundred shares on an upward move, and buy a few hundred if they drift downward for no good reason. Only involves 5-10% of my portfolio. The rest I leave for the longer term. It's not day trading per se..as I will hold positions for several days/weeks if necessary. In fact, I could argue my tactics are really just micro level portfolio rebalancing.....

It's time consuming but I actually enjoy the mental exercise & the challenge. It's helped me outperform the market by a few points over the last 3 years. The conventional wisdom is the big guys control the market & have the small traders at their mercy. Actually, I believe the converse is true. The big institutions move stocks so significantly when they buy/sell that it can cause short term inefficiencies that can be exploited by savvy traders.
__________________
mark
markplus4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-31-2005, 04:28 PM   #16
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 21
Re: Day Trading

Thanks for the input from all.

Special thanks to Markplus4 (Swing trade maybe?)

I continue my search for the master trading plan.....
__________________
TK is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 05-31-2005, 05:01 PM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
Re: Day Trading

In the late 90's the security guards at work were giving me stock tips. When that happens again I will know to sell. For every person that makes a fortune trading stocks there are a hundred that lost everything and aren't talking.

I don't have any secrets myself. I just buy and hold and hope for the best.
__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Lazarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 06-01-2005, 05:34 PM   #18
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 717
Re: Day Trading

Hi - I daytraded mutual funds in a very big way in the late 90's and made a very nice nest egg. When the mutual funds blocked traders like me from frequent trading (and then exploited the same techniques on their own funds), I ended up going to cash. This turned out to be fortunate as I sat the bear market out. Since then I've experimented seriously with day trading stocks, but it involves incredible concentration, knowledge, and emotional control. I can't handle the emotional control part. I wouldn't recommend it . . . it will dominate your life like a drug addiction.
__________________
Random Reinforcement is Highly Addictive.
riskadverse is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 06-01-2005, 05:57 PM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Day Trading

Like I said, a monkey could have thrown darts at the stock page in the wall street journal and made big bucks in the late 90s. If you lost money trading between 96 and the end of 99 you really should stick with a day job instead of day trading.

Not denigrating your efforts riskeverse...hell I'm proud of one year that I had a 300%+ gain in without holding anything for longer than a week or two...but I dont ever mistake much of that gain for any particular prowess or any likelihood of pulling off a strong year in a normal investing period.

There are guys with WAY more access to information and company stuff and WAY more money to buy that info than any of us. If there was any science to it at all, a lot of people would be regularly stuffing their wallets.

Buffett...Lynch (for a while)...Miller (for 13 years)...monkeys at a typewriter would have better odds.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Day Trading
Old 06-01-2005, 08:02 PM   #20
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 21
Re: Day Trading

from Riskaverse:

Since then I've experimented seriously with day trading stocks, but it involves incredible concentration, knowledge, and emotional control. I can't handle the emotional control part. I wouldn't recommend it . . . it will dominate your life like a drug addiction.


I could not agree more with this comment... Thanks

Of course I have seen many a retired folk with slot machine fever that would make this addiction look small.

and if you are going to do something you might as well do it with gusto no?
__________________

__________________
TK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Web based day trading software xprinter Young Dreamers 8 04-19-2007 04:26 PM
S&P 500 drops below 200 day MA cute fuzzy bunny FIRE and Money 21 04-25-2005 11:39 AM
This company pays 1% per day 365 days a year! powercash FIRE and Money 3 02-28-2005 04:33 PM
Your day to do it dex Other topics 7 08-26-2004 12:19 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:51 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.