Dear Abby doesn't get FIRE

[cj]

This was in Dear Abby today. I'm going to post the whole thing instead of linking, because the contents go away the next day. I just shook my head. Even Dear Abby doesn't understand that you can LBYM and be set for life...

DEAR ABBY: I'm single, have no kids and I'm about to turn 62. I own my own home and have no debts. After years of earning a modest but steady income and watching my expenses, I have saved enough and I am eligible for good retirement benefits. So what's my problem?Friends and family insist I'm crazy to leave a job at which I could work for another five to 10 years. I know retirement is practical for me because I have gotten professional financial planning advice. There are many things I really want to do -- classes, hobbies, volunteer work and travel before I'm too old.
My friends need to work to support their extravagant lifestyles, lavish vacations, expensive restaurants, plus their new cars, clothing and electronics. I did things my way and can afford to retire now, so why can't my friends keep their mouths shut and let me enjoy what I have worked for? -- READY TO RETIRE


DEAR READY: They may be jealous, or they may be genuinely concerned about you. Not knowing them, I can't answer for them. I can, however, suggest this: Before quitting your job and the steady, modest income it provides, talk with another financial planner and get a second opinion. You'd do that with a doctor if you had a serious question about your physical health, and I'm recommending you do it because this decision will affect your financial health for the rest of your life. If you wait a few more years, you won't be over the hill, and you will have even more money to enjoy in your retirement.
​

 

[sunnysideup]

Not only does Abby not get FIRE, she went beyond answering the person's question and gave advice on getting a second opinion. It wasn't bad advice, it just wasn't asked for. She mentioned she didn't know the friends and family, but she doesn't know the poster either.

I imagine there are many folks on this board who can relate to this person's dilemma. I know that when I talk with friends about retiring before 62, most of them cannot relate. I only have 2 that are on the same track...and have another dozen who will be working until 70 or later, if they can maintain employment. It's getting harder and harder for well paid professionals to keep their jobs when they can be replace with younger, lower paid employees...

 

[Amethyst]

The writer specifically asked "Why can't my friends keep their mouths shut?" and Abby answered, sensibly enough, "I can't speak for them." If the writer had asked "What can I say to my friends to keep them from bugging me about retiring?" it would have given Abby something to advise about.

I think the rest of her advice was sound enough. She didn't say "Don't retire," she said "Get a second opinion to be sure your finances are as good as you think they are." The only thing Abby didn't do was recommend subscribing to the ER Forum, and that, of course, was a "fail."

For what it's worth, I felt the writer didn't need to go all judgmental on their friends and family needing to work to support extravagant lifestyles. Just a question about "What can I say to these busybodies?" would have sufficed.

Amethyst

This was in Dear Abby today. I'm going to post the whole thing instead of linking, because the contents go away the next day. I just shook my head. Even Dear Abby doesn't understand that you can LBYM and be set for life...

DEAR ABBY: I'm single, have no kids and I'm about to turn 62. I own my own home and have no debts. After years of earning a modest but steady income and watching my expenses, I have saved enough and I am eligible for good retirement benefits. So what's my problem?Friends and family insist I'm crazy to leave a job at which I could work for another five to 10 years. I know retirement is practical for me because I have gotten professional financial planning advice. There are many things I really want to do -- classes, hobbies, volunteer work and travel before I'm too old.
My friends need to work to support their extravagant lifestyles, lavish vacations, expensive restaurants, plus their new cars, clothing and electronics. I did things my way and can afford to retire now, so why can't my friends keep their mouths shut and let me enjoy what I have worked for? -- READY TO RETIRE


DEAR READY: They may be jealous, or they may be genuinely concerned about you. Not knowing them, I can't answer for them. I can, however, suggest this: Before quitting your job and the steady, modest income it provides, talk with another financial planner and get a second opinion. You'd do that with a doctor if you had a serious question about your physical health, and I'm recommending you do it because this decision will affect your financial health for the rest of your life. If you wait a few more years, you won't be over the hill, and you will have even more money to enjoy in your retirement.
​

 

[chris2008]

If you wait a few more years, you won't be over the hill, and you will have even more money to enjoy in your retirement.

This quote shows for me that Abby does not understand retirement:

1. Retirement does not necessarily get better the more money is available.
2. In a few more years the poster might not be "over the hill" but under it...

To original poster:
Track your expenses and use firecalc and some other good tools.
If they give you 100% success go for it! Just give your friends a big smile when you tell them that you appreciate their concerns but appreciate your time more than your job. And ENJOY!

 

[TuborgP]

There are unknown variable that may say retire, retire. Her pension and employer retiree health benefits may more than cover her current expenses and in fact she could still build her nest egg. We retired prior to age 60 in that situation and as SS continues to kick in we only invest more etc etc. There is no financial life quality advantage to working. Unless pensions and SS collapse FireCalc will always give us a 99 percent plus chance of meeting our goal with a sizable increase in investments. Abby like many others in the media are consumed with people outliving their assets.

 

[Lsbcal]

I read that column but don't expect a deep answer. After all people are writing about some serious issues and how do you dispense advice on such issues in 5 to 10 sentences? Don't you need to have a serious 2 way conversation, or multi-way like in these forums?

I would never trust my financial future to an advice columnist unless she could tell me when the market high was coming.

 

[karluk]

My personal reaction is that Dear Abby's answer was very good. She was in a position of knowing absolutely nothing about the finances of "Ready to Retire", or the seriousness of the concerns being expressed by the family and friends. If the same person had posted in this forum insisting that he or she was ready to retire, practically every response would have included something to the effect of, "What does Firecalc say?" Abby wasn't in position to ask the same question, so she very sensibly suggested that "Ready to Retire" get a second opinion. I fail to see the harm in such a suggestion.

 

[jollystomper]

I don't see an issue with the recommendation to get a second opinion. For example, I wouldn't rely only on FIRECALC as my only source, I use a finanical planner (free thru my work) along with FRIP, FIRECALC, and Quicken Planner to form a consensus.

However, the "work a few more years, you're not over the hill yet" is still stuck in the traditional of 65 being the first "acceptable" year for retirement... completely ignoring not only those seeking ER before that, but an economy where many who might want to work that long in their chosen career are not allowed to do so.

 

[pb4uski]

+1

 

[Alan]

DEAR ABBY: I'm single, have no kids and I'm about to turn 62. I own my own home and have no debts. After years of earning a modest but steady income and watching my expenses, I have saved enough and I am eligible for good retirement benefits.

To me it sounds like the financial planner he consulted WAS the second opinion. (and he wasn't Abby her opinion on his idea to retire, he was asking how to respond to his friends' advice)

 

[karluk]

To me it sounds like the financial planner he consulted WAS the second opinion. (and he wasn't Abby her opinion on his idea to retire, he was asking how to respond to his friends' advice)

A truly unique definition of "second opinion", indeed. By your definition a doctor's opinion counts one, the patient's opinion counts two, so there would never be a need to consult with a second physician in the case of a life threatening medical condition. Please forgive me if I prefer Dear Abby's definition of "second opinion" to yours.

 

[fritz]

To me it sounds like the financial planner he consulted WAS the second opinion. (and he wasn't Abby her opinion on his idea to retire, he was asking how to respond to his friends' advice)

That was my take away on it also.

Given the person's comments about his friends extravagant lifestyles and his LBYM scenario, he should have expected some questioning his sanity when he doesn't appear to be as successful as them, and is going to retire early...

 

[Alan]

A truly unique definition of "second opinion", indeed. By your definition a doctor's opinion counts one, the patient's opinion counts two, so there would never be a need to consult with a second physician in the case of a life threatening medical condition. Please forgive me if I prefer Dear Abby's definition of "second opinion" to yours.

You don't need a professional degree and training to know how much you spend, and at 62, how much you are about to receive in pension and SS payments.

I do agree that when it comes to medical conditions I would not consider a doctor's opinion as second to my own diagnosis.

 

[karluk]

You don't need a professional degree and training to know how much you spend, and at 62, how much you are about to receive in pension and SS payments.

Anyone who jumped into retirement knowing only how much they were about to receive in pension and SS payments would clearly not be competent to evaluate their readiness for retirement and hence would be in dire need of a second opinion. How much have they saved? How is their money invested? Where is their health care coming from? Do they have long term care insurance? What will be the effects of inflation 30 years from now? What are their monthly expenses? What discretionary expenses would they like their retirement to provide?

Abby wasn't able to ask and get responses to these and many other questions that needed to be asked, so she suggested that "Ready for Retirement" get a second opinion before doing something as potentially irreversible as quitting his or her job. That's sound advice, and probably as good a response as you're going to see coming from a generic advice columnist.

 

[ziggy29]

People are either projecting their own inability to be good about managing their money, or they are just jealous that others have the ability to kiss their boss goodbye for good.

 

[Shawn]

I would get a second opinion from a doctor if my medical situation was severe or complex. However, I would not get a second opinion if after a routine physical examination my doctor told me I was fine. I had an "Age 50" colonoscopy a few years ago. The doctor said there were no problems. I did not rush out to get a 2nd colonoscopy nor did I have another doctor check the results.

I think the person in question falls in the second category. He (or she) believes his financial situation is sound and performs due diligence by obtaining confirmation from a professional financial planner. He does not need a second opinion.

Dear Abby does not seem to understand ER or that ER is a reasonable outcome for a LBYM lifestyle. She appears to believe that ER is so unusual / complex that multiple opinions are needed. ER is not open heart surgery.

 

[foxfirev5]

I amazed that the majority of people out there really can't comprehend the concept of FI and ER. It runs the entire spectrum of society. It turns out that our little group here is pretty unique.

 

[Bestwifeever]

A lot of advice columnists have a stable of experts that they refer to. I'm surprised whoever is writing Dear Abby didn't get their professional opinion and report it--it sounds like it's just what the columnist feels regarding why not work a few more years. I think her answer is just dumb considering the potential retiree is set financially and has lots of things he's looking forward to doing.

 

[antmary]

My personal reaction is that Dear Abby's answer was very good. She was in a position of knowing absolutely nothing about the finances of "Ready to Retire", or the seriousness of the concerns being expressed by the family and friends. If the same person had posted in this forum insisting that he or she was ready to retire, practically every response would have included something to the effect of, "What does Firecalc say?" Abby wasn't in position to ask the same question, so she very sensibly suggested that "Ready to Retire" get a second opinion. I fail to see the harm in such a suggestion.

I agree with karluk. The advice was offered in a spirit of helpfulness.

 

[truenorth418]

I retired after running the numbers myself and through a few retirement calculators. Afterwards, I met with 2 different financial advisors who both confirmed my conclusions. This made me feel better about my decision albeit after the fact. It is not a big deal to get a second opinion about retirement readiness and if it means a little extra peace of mind for the OP, then great.

Where Dear Abby failed the OP was that she offered no useful advice regarding how he should deal with all the naysayers around him. Whether he visits another financial advisor or not, he still needs to address the social and family considerations, whether they are motivated by jealousy or genuine concern.

 

[Spanky]

I did things my way and can afford to retire now, so why can't my friends keep their mouths shut and let me enjoy what I have worked for?

What kind of response does "ready-to-retire" expect? A better question is "how do I deal with my friends about ER?"

 

[NW-Bound]

... "how do I deal with my friends about ER?"...

Find new friends who also ER'ed?

 

[Alan]

Where Dear Abby failed the OP was that she offered no useful advice regarding how he should deal with all the naysayers around him. Whether he visits another financial advisor or not, he still needs to address the social and family considerations, whether they are motivated by jealousy or genuine concern.

+1


He had run his numbers, consulted a financial planner, and is now more concerned with dealing the social issues of retiring early at age 62.

 

[Independent]

Abby used two sentences to say that she couldn't answer the question (Why do my friends ...?). She should have stopped there. Since she couldn't answer, maybe she should have printed some other letter.

When I used to read Ann Landers, I noticed that her go-to answer was always "consult and expert". That's safe and doesn't get you sued. But, in this case, the reader had already consulted an expert. I don't see any value in the "second opinion", as I agree that someone who is financially adept enough to live modestly and save probably has some DIY credentials.

But, the real problem is the last sentence. Abby starts opining on something she has already said is better left to the experts. Abby doesn't know if the reader will have a long, healthy life or if she'll be dead in a couple years. The retirement decision is about trade-offs. If Abby isn't willing to talk about both the pros and cons, she shouldn't start talking at all.

 

[Midpack]

I don't see anything wrong with the question or the answer - general answer to a general question. It would be irresponsible if Abby had suggested anything other than a second/third opinion and erred on the side of waiting a few years, since she didn't have any numbers to work with. What's she going to say, 'go for it' with no real factual basis?

However, to me the real question is why READY is still worried about what other people think to begin with? Asking other/strangers how to deal with naysayers is kinda lame IMO at age 62, should've grown out of that quite a while ago. YMMV