Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-05-2014, 03:02 PM   #81
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
Because Person A, being dead, is incapable of being taxed? The taxes apply to Person A's heirs, who are asked to pay their share of their unearned gains?
I wasn't clear and should have said that I was assuming the gains had already been taxed. In fact it was taxed twice, once when earned (income tax) and again when the saver didn't spend it but was paid interest or dividends when he made that money available for use by other people.

That always made me go "grrrrr" too because in effect the saver is penalized for not engaging in consumption that he feels is not necessary or is not wanted.
__________________

__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-05-2014, 03:36 PM   #82
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nash031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Coronado
Posts: 1,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
I'd consider dividends and capital gains as just regular income that would be taxed at your marginal income tax rate.
While this would affect a lot of folks on here including me, I agree in principle.
__________________

__________________
"So we beat to our own drummer in the sun;
We ask for nobody's permission to run.
I just wanna live in a world like that;
Now I'm gonna live in a world like that!" - World Like That, O.A.R.
nash031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 04:58 PM   #83
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Islip
Posts: 19
What is so interesting about this thread is the many paths others take to reach that comfort level and balance between income needs and what it takes to get there. It makes me appreciate the income I have and if I can stay healthy, I can work another 12 years to maximize my SS. Some folks never get that chance because of their health, bad economy, corporate bs, or the creative destruction of the business they work in.

I agree with one of the posters about pensions and wealth. I live in a state that is very very good to their public sector employees, but frankly, the money has to come from somewhere, and it's not the sky.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
Blue65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Defining Rich in America
Old 09-05-2014, 05:03 PM   #84
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,035
Defining Rich in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by nash031 View Post
While this would affect a lot of folks on here including me, I agree in principle.

[ quote is referring to taxing passive income]

The interesting thing is it would presumably lower the overall income tax rates as that burden becomes more shared. Well, maybe that's wishful thinking, probably our leaders would just spend (borrow) more.







Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
dallas27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 05:06 PM   #85
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBoy5 View Post
And on that note, I see this reflected in the cars too. Almost all of the McMansions have $60K+ cars in the drives whereas we have lots of older Hondas (especially the 2000-2005 Accords!), Toyotas and a couple of Towncars (that are 10 years old). I feel out of place in my 5 year old Infiniti!
Usually those McMansions with 60k cars are NOT owned by people who have high net worth. They are owned by high earners though.
__________________
eta2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 05:26 PM   #86
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Utrecht
Posts: 2,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby View Post
That said, the growth of an economy comes down to spending, whether by the Government or someone like Person B blows the money on frivolous purchases. Absent spending (and where there is prodigious saving), money doesn't flow easily and you have an economy like Japan's was until recently.
Probably not the place to voice my stance on this, but the growth of an economy in the long run most certainly does *not* come down to spending.

It comes from the ability to create and do more with less, i.e. efficiency. Specifically, more possible output in goods and services with less energy in human-hours involved.

The increased consumption is an effect of that, not the driver.

Frivolous purchases waste resources and actually reduces potential growth. You need purchases that further increase efficiency and output per unit of energy / human effort. In other words: investments with a good return on capital.

Small counter-example to Japan: Belgium has one of the highest savings rates in the world, they are doing fine. China also saves a bundle.
__________________
Totoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 07:45 PM   #87
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totoro View Post
Probably not the place to voice my stance on this, but the growth of an economy in the long run most certainly does *not* come down to spending.

It comes from the ability to create and do more with less, i.e. efficiency. Specifically, more possible output in goods and services with less energy in human-hours involved.

The increased consumption is an effect of that, not the driver.

Frivolous purchases waste resources and actually reduces potential growth. You need purchases that further increase efficiency and output per unit of energy / human effort. In other words: investments with a good return on capital.

Small counter-example to Japan: Belgium has one of the highest savings rates in the world, they are doing fine. China also saves a bundle.

+1 to someone who understands "wealth of nations" (adam smith)


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
dallas27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 08:55 PM   #88
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totoro View Post
Frivolous purchases waste resources and actually reduces potential growth. You need purchases that further increase efficiency and output per unit of energy / human effort. In other words: investments with a good return on capital.
Precisely why enormous military spending, supported by politicians of every stripe for the jobs it supposedly creates in their districts, actually harms rather than helps the economy. There is no economic return on the capital invested in a tank or a submarine (although at least some tanks and submarines admittedly are required for other reasons).
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2014, 09:59 AM   #89
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,356
The problem with this view is that we've been running below our economic capacity since the economic crisis, and that may continue for quite a while. Our economy is currently facing a shortage of demand.

In our current situation, productivity gains actually work against us, as it just generates lay-offs, which ends up reducing demand further as those laid-off workers cut back spending.

Productivity gains are good when the economy can find something useful for those freed up workers to do, but in the current situation they actually makes the economy worse.

Its slowly getting back to "normal", but until we are at full employment, those productivity gains aren't really gaining us anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totoro View Post
Probably not the place to voice my stance on this, but the growth of an economy in the long run most certainly does *not* come down to spending.

It comes from the ability to create and do more with less, i.e. efficiency. Specifically, more possible output in goods and services with less energy in human-hours involved.

The increased consumption is an effect of that, not the driver.

Frivolous purchases waste resources and actually reduces potential growth. You need purchases that further increase efficiency and output per unit of energy / human effort. In other words: investments with a good return on capital.

Small counter-example to Japan: Belgium has one of the highest savings rates in the world, they are doing fine. China also saves a bundle.
__________________
Hamlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2014, 10:07 AM   #90
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
........ There is no economic return on the capital invested in a tank ...........
Sure there is . They can be handed down to local police departments to save them from having to buy them from their own budgets. This can be a big deal in a town of a hundred people.
__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2014, 10:16 AM   #91
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
imoldernu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Peru
Posts: 4,616
Rich in America... Didn't make the cut.
Attached Images
File Type: gif cave_eyes_fire_hg_blk.gif (42.3 KB, 389 views)
__________________
imoldernu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 11:42 PM   #92
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,065
Quote:
That’s why it’s better to think about the question of who’s rich in terms of accumulated wealth instead of annual income (which in turn is a good argument for a wealth tax).
Thanks candrew for the excerpts, which saved me from wasting time reading the linked article. I can stop reading right there … no such thing as "a good argument for a wealth tax".
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 12:54 AM   #93
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by eta2020 View Post
Usually those McMansions with 60k cars are NOT owned by people who have high net worth. They are owned by high earners though.

And to build on your point...those folks are simply temporary "users" of that stuff. Financial entities actually "own" it.
Well over 50% of high end vehicles are leased rather than purchased.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
Turboslacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 04:33 PM   #94
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
There is no economic return on the capital invested in a tank or a submarine (although at least some tanks and submarines admittedly are required for other reasons).
I think that is straight out of The Art Of War. Force the enemy to spend outlandish sums on his military and thereby bankrupt him or at least reduce his resources.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 08:13 PM   #95
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Yuma AZ
Posts: 270
Personal Opinion:

If you do not have personal assets & income along the lines of the British royalty, you are not rich.
__________________
unno2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 08:19 PM   #96
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREd View Post
We tend to worship the millionaire next door on this forum. But there are people out there for whom a 3,000 sqft colonial and a BMW are still well below what they could afford. Sometimes people look rich because... they are rich, richer than most us millionaires next door ever will be!
LOL. that is the secret envy of this board. My Dad used to give me this line, but mostly he was wrong, just like mostly one would be wrong to assume that most of the people who park their Ferraris, Aston Martins and 911s in the Microsoft or Google garages are actually broke. Most of them are actually filthy rich!

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 08:25 PM   #97
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
Precisely why enormous military spending, supported by politicians of every stripe for the jobs it supposedly creates in their districts, actually harms rather than helps the economy. There is no economic return on the capital invested in a tank or a submarine (although at least some tanks and submarines admittedly are required for other reasons).
Actually in the case of the US, it is in no small part all the money spent on tanks, submarines and missiles, etc. that has made the US the dominant military force of the 20th (and so far 21st) century, which in turn as allowed the US to have the tremendous economic benefit of having its currency (the $) as the world's reserve currency.
__________________
LARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 08:53 PM   #98
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by LARS View Post
Actually in the case of the US, it is in no small part all the money spent on tanks, submarines and missiles, etc. that has made the US the dominant military force of the 20th (and so far 21st) century, which in turn as allowed the US to have the tremendous economic benefit of having its currency (the $) as the world's reserve currency.
Is it military might that makes the USD the world reserve currency? It is an interesting theory and there are substantial benefits that arise from that status. I honestly don't know the answer.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 09:43 PM   #99
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
Is it military might that makes the USD the world reserve currency? It is an interesting theory and there are substantial benefits that arise from that status. I honestly don't know the answer.
Yes, generally thru history the privilege of reserve currency status has fallen to the world's military 'enforcer'. Prior to the US, Great Britain (of Britannia rules the waves era) played the role similar to modern US.
__________________
LARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 09:58 PM   #100
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Quote:
most of the people who park their Ferraris, Aston Martins and 911s in the Microsoft or Google garages are actually broke. Most of them are actually filthy rich!
In reality, the original Google garage does not have any cars in it!
__________________

__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Defining Financial Independence (FI) David1961 FIRE and Money 33 08-12-2013 12:04 AM
How rich is rich? Focus FIRE and Money 12 08-09-2010 11:05 PM
Rich Falling Behind Super-Rich? Andy R Other topics 1 09-15-2009 09:46 PM
Defining legal residence? farmerEd Other topics 14 02-18-2006 09:57 AM
BECOME RICH AND STAY RICH idevision Young Dreamers 12 07-27-2005 04:41 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:51 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.