Depressed.....What to do?

[ndnguy822000]

Sell the house and move into a smaller home, 800k valued home has major upkeep especially if you are not working. If our wife doesn't agree then maybe it's time to show her the reasons you want to sell the house. Peace of mind is peace of mind. House is paid off but you are sitting on a golden egg that continues to produce nothing except cost you more. Don't be depressed you are doing very well if you ask me but the house must go man

 

[bmcgonig]

I think you can snap out of depression sometimes with a change in perspective. I once was very anxious for weeks and couldn't sleep about an issue on my mind. Similar to the OP, I was worried about my future plans being ruined due to a life situation at the time. After a visit to my GP who provided some very encouraging words and pointed out that what I was anxious about was unlikely to happen and then said to me go home and sleep tonight, I indeed snapped out of it.

I've read that we are born with a certain setpoint of happiness. The rest is up to us and it is controllable. There are three ways that we can gain control

1 Reframe. Same as change perspective. You're in quite decent shape financially and way better off than most folks getting laid off at your age I might imagine. Lots of other positives that you might emphasize.

2 Gratitude. As someone said, count your blessings. Sounds trite but it works.

3 Be generous. Look out for those less fortunate. There are many that would love to be in your situation...

The above seemingly work wonders in our brain to change our outlook. We're using our mind to "change our minds"

Good luck

 

[Cantwaitanylonger]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. I am finding that it is therapeutic to continue to discuss this with others. There is some comfort in knowing that I am not alone and this is a fairly common theme.

The comment that directed me to run firecalc was a good one. I was honestly scared to run it, expecting bad results, and not sure I was mentally capable of another blow. That fear turned out to be unfounded and the results were positive.

I do understand that I am in a better position than many although it does help to hear that from others also. Several years ago, I embraced some Mister Money Mustache ideas, especially the "treat debt like your hair is on fire" one. I did read almost all of his posts and decided to pay off all of my debt ASAP. I know that some of you don't think highly of his concepts but it did give me some good direction and has put me in a better spot today. And, yes, I do know that my house breaks all of his rules.

The depression is something that seems to have a mind of its own and comes and goes somewhat unexpectedly. Friday was a very bad day for me for some unknown reason. That is what led me to create the original post. After all of this discussion, Saturday was a much better day, but I am far from being back to my normally very happy and thankful self.

I understand how someone would suggest that I "snap out of it" and 2 months ago, I might have suggested the same advice, being someone that has never experienced this situation and these emotions before. I now know differently and wish that it was just that easy. I have always been and emotional "rock" and now find myself in uncharted waters. I may have already bottomed out and have reached a turning point thanks to you great folks, time will tell. I do know that I have always known what I was doing and where I was going, except for now. I need to get that direction back ASAP, even if the direction is to continue to do nothing, career-wise.

 

[Dash man]

Depression is much more serious than losing a job. When you think about how much you hate yourself, experience true sadness, become something of a hermit or snap at your loved ones for stupid things...these are signs of depression. Some can be helped with medication (I'm on two) and therapy. Some can't be helped. I've probably been depressed for eleven years or more. Chronic pain led me down the path but ultimately it's a chemical imbalance in the brain. Someone mentioned Cymbalta. That nearly killed me when prescribed for pain management. with suicidal thinking. Let your doctor choose and monitor your medications.

 

[MrLoco]

I look at your situation from a net worth scenario. If you include the duplex, it looks like you have over 50% of you net worth tied up in real estate. If this sector nosedives again .. so does your net worth. Plus, be careful with Firecalc. You assume $2.9 million in future assets? What if we enter a prolonged bear market?

Don't mean to be a downer but as others have said I see the house as a big anchor around your financial neck moving forward.

 

[Carol1862]

It sounds like you're more in a funk than a depression. There are those truly in depression that couldn't have even come onto this forum and posted. Their depths of sadness are too overwhelming. It affects them to a point of almost non functioning. And it is a clinical disease. If you feel that describes you more than please go to a dr for some help.

As others have pointed out, the house is a noose around your neck. However, I wouldn't do anything at this point. Re-evaluate in 6 months or a year. See if you get a job. How your portfolio looks at that time. There is no need to rush this major decision. Looks to me like your $12,000 in rental income and $12,000 in taxes are a wash. The rental income is just paying for taxes. You have a significant amount tied up in your house. In time you both may come to terms with having to sell and downsize.

If it helps, yes, we've been in your shoes. It does work out. But, we downsized to a lower COL area. Made a huge difference.

Wishing you the best...

 

[Choices]

Well, while you are at home, go through every room and every closet. Get rid of all the cr*p you are not using. Have a yard sale or Craigslist the good stuff. Donate a bunch. I love clean cupboards!
There are usually projects to do around the house. Pick one and then another.
Your wife may not want the " help" but is there a way to grow her business?
But, first of all, go to your usual doctor. They can prescribe meds to help your depression if needed and as needed. Lots of us have been there and still are -- medication and counseling help.

 

[ivinsfan]

I understand here is a huge difference between a depression and a depressed mood.
The advice to snap out of it will not do any good to a really depressed person.

Amen,sometimes with the loss of loved one or a divorce or any of the other difficult things life throws our way it's completely normal to feel depressed. But telling someone with situation depression to snap out of it won't help either.

 

[Cantwaitanylonger]

Just as an update, I have been feeling better since posting and receiving all of the comforting advice. I doubt that I could be described as anywhere near clinically depressed. I just have been really down since my job loss. I don't sleep well and have lost 10 pounds (silver lining). I think that I would feel much better if I had a pension or health care, but I don't and need to come to grips with my situation. If Obamacare stays around and I keep my AGI low enough (I think under 65K), the healthcare cost is relatively cheap. Of the 850K, 90% is in an IRA so it would be hard to withdraw without a 72t.

All of this will change if I get a decent job, or even a not-so decent job, as long as it has health care benefits. I continue to look for jobs and probably have 3-4 decent prospects at this time. All of them could easily fall thru as many have already, but I am trying to remain positive.

I am going to wait about 2 weeks to see if any of the jobs materialize and if not, I will go head first into my handyman business. I have no idea how that will go but many are pushing me that direction and feel that there is a very strong need in this area.

I will update as things happen. I owe it to all of you that have helped.

Thank you all again.

 

[Music Lover]

Here are some of my thoughts on the lake house. I view it as kind of a pent-up savings account that you cannot make withdraws on until it is sold. Around here, the houses on the lake are gaining value faster than the ones off the lake.

I feel like the gain in value is offsetting the tax cost and I am gaining in the end, probably a better gain than in a smaller house. It will just take some time to get the money, and I will continue to feed it (taxes) and lose the value of the $$ freed up with the downsizing sale.

In the end, it may end up being close to being a wash either way.

I do agree that it would be less mentally taxing to do the downsizing thing now.

Instead of selling, is it feasible to move somewhere less expensive for a while and rent out the lake house to generate income? Would it generate a decent rental income?

 

[MBAustin]

Cantwait - very glad to hear that you are feeling more positive thanks to the wonderful members here.

One other thought - with a lakefront house, would renting out a room on AirBnB be an option for some extra cash? Obviously depends on your specific location and house configuration.

Keep us posted on the job/handyman progress!

 

[daylatedollarshort]

For the depression, here is a link to a Ted Talk you might find helpful -

 

[cynicalbuthopeful]

CantWait --

My DH went through something similar a few years ago. One of the most valuable activities he did was to go to a support group. There are groups of professionals that meet regularly to support each other. He found that by helping others, he in turn helped himself.

As for the lack of response to your job inquiries, he also found that he received 0 response to the positions he applied for. A consulting gig is what landed him a permanent position.

He says that when he looks back he sees that he was in shock for a while, and he found the whole job search process a bummer. A job placement consultant told him that job hunting online was not a good use of time and he needed to get out and meet people and make connections. Turns out that was just what worked.

This is my first post on the forum (I apologize for not introducing myself), but I was moved by your situation. Know that others have been where you are, and no matter which path you take you are going to make it through this.

 

[Scuba]

Just as an update, I have been feeling better since posting and receiving all of the comforting advice. I doubt that I could be described as anywhere near clinically depressed. I just have been really down since my job loss. I don't sleep well and have lost 10 pounds (silver lining). I think that I would feel much better if I had a pension or health care, but I don't and need to come to grips with my situation. If Obamacare stays around and I keep my AGI low enough (I think under 65K), the healthcare cost is relatively cheap. Of the 850K, 90% is in an IRA so it would be hard to withdraw without a 72t.



All of this will change if I get a decent job, or even a not-so decent job, as long as it has health care benefits. I continue to look for jobs and probably have 3-4 decent prospects at this time. All of them could easily fall thru as many have already, but I am trying to remain positive.



I am going to wait about 2 weeks to see if any of the jobs materialize and if not, I will go head first into my handyman business. I have no idea how that will go but many are pushing me that direction and feel that there is a very strong need in this area.



I will update as things happen. I owe it to all of you that have helped.



Thank you all again.

So glad you are starting to feel better. I always find making a plan and executing it helps me. Sounds as though you have a good plan and that regardless of what happens, you and your family will be ok. Hopefully one day you will look back on this layoff as a blessing. Good luck and looking forward to hearing updates.

 

[Cantwaitanylonger]

I continue to say thank you for your support and I sincerely mean it.

Thinking of this situation as a blessing is a really positive thought for me. I love the suggestion and the thought that something better or great will come out of this. This gives me great hope.

The thought that someone was moved by my situation also really helps put this in perspective. Thank you for that.

 

[brainsagolfer]

I went back to your original post and noticed you said "While at work, I dreamed constantly about ER. Now, though, I am very depressed over losing my job". I understand that for sure as i am nearing ER. But, I do not hate my job. I was making 140k/yr and decided to move from NY to PA ( to reduce the employer caused stress in my life) -- taking a cut in pay to 70K. Let me tell you - that is stressful. I had trouble sleeping also, constantly running "the numbers" to convince myself i could get by with half of my previous pay. I was 45 YO, and had the same job for 19 years.
I kept trying to convince myself that even if i had to rent for a while, it was worth removing the dread of going to work there every day.
In the end I was correct. I did not realize how stressed i was in the old job. I did convince myself that living without all the expensive things i was used to buying was something good. After several years my standard of living was back to where it was before i moved.
I realized that as long as you have your friends, family...you can just enjoy the simpler things, and the building that your stuff is inhabiting does not matter.
I realize that many people want to retire and live in their dream home, but is it really worth the stress?
Having said all the above..... I am wondering - if you had gotten another similar job after being laid off..... would you sit at THAT job dreaming constantly of ER? If so, the answer is not another, similar job - is it??

 

[Cantwaitanylonger]

Excellent point. I was just reading my post from several years ago stating that I can't wait to quit my job (thus my screen name). I guess that it is easy to forget the past feelings when I am so concerned with the financial situation of losing the income and having to additionally pay for healthcare. Like you, I continue to endlessly run the numbers, wondering how we can move forward with so much less income.

Jobs are all so unique that I'm not sure how I would prefer a similar job or not. One thing that I can say is that I won't take the next position for granted after this. If I get a job, I also will create a plan and execute it on my own terms......as much as is possible. I really would like to work just another 2 years to get me to 59.5. Firecalc says I'm good to go now, but going 2 more years would put the icing on the cake for me.

If it doesn't happen that way, I am now in a better mental state to find another way forward. I can still pursue contract work, and also look at working on my own. I can even join my wife's business and try to expand it.

The fog has lifted a little bit, mostly by having an open discussion with you fine people.

 

[rayinpenn]

I'm sure you've heard this but let me remind you
1. Good people lose their jobs every day
2. You aren't your job, you never were.
3. Unless you have experienced depression it is difficult to others to understand.
4. You can feel better but you need to work at it. See some one and/or read about how others overcame it..
5. Avoid negativity: sad movies, people and or things that bring you down.
6. Focus on identifying the positive in your life...

It may take some time but things will get better. In the corporate world I've seen many middle aged guys lose their jobs to RIFs. Every single one found their way-- you will too.

Oh that $800k house sell it, start a new adventure. There are lots of lovely towns in the US were $200k buys nice home.

Did you see this...just a thought.

Interesting article for those looking to relocate in retirement. The study considered "everything from affordability to quality healthcare access, long-term care options, a variety of senior care services, and overall quality of life." Utah was ranked #1, Oregon, Washington and California all made the top 10.

https://www.caring.com/articles/best-and-worst-states-to-grow-old-2017

 

[Amethyst]

There are lots of "handy" services in our area, and they all fall into two categories:
1) Works when he (haven't met any handywomen as yet) darn well pleases; may or may not do a good job. Also has a tendency, while on the job, to flaunt religious beliefs - which I find self-serving and tedious. I have no idea why religiosity and handymannery seem to go hand-in-hand around here.
2) Works for a small or medium-sized business; does a pretty good job, shows up on time, and charges out the gazoo.

We need something between 1 and 2. Do a good job, show up on time and, when computing costs, do not involve the gazoo.

I am going to wait about 2 weeks to see if any of the jobs materialize and if not, I will go head first into my handyman business. I have no idea how that will go but many are pushing me that direction and feel that there is a very strong need in this area.

.

 

[ER Eddie]

Just as an update, I have been feeling better since posting and receiving all of the comforting advice. I doubt that I could be described as anywhere near clinically depressed. I just have been really down since my job loss. I don't sleep well and have lost 10 pounds (silver lining).

Just a couple notes about "depression." What you may have is an "Adjustment Disorder with depressed mood," rather than clinical depression -- basically, a temporary reaction to a situation that you find very hard to cope with. Your mood is rebounding with some positive feedback on a forum, which to me suggests that you might be correct in saying you were not suffering clinical depression. Sounds more like an adjustment reaction, which would be very understandable in your situation.

Typically, it's not necessary to get on medication for something like that. Support (as you've seen) is very helpful. Lots of people find a brief course of counseling (i.e., 6 to 8 sessions) helpful, to get them through the rough spots, check their thinking, get perspective/insight, additional support, etc. You might consider that, if the mood takes a downturn and stays that way for more than a couple days.

Good luck.

 

[mountaintosea]

After going through all the posts I didn't see anybody make this suggestion. You want to keep the big house? What about Air B&B? You could move to duplex and rent out bigger house until you think you have enough? Or how about a Bed and Breakfast if possible with local regulations etc? Just my .02.

 

[Cantwaitanylonger]

Thanks for the response. I would view the renting of my house as a very aggressive action. I would have to move out and find another place to live. My wife won't live in the duplex right now. She may change her tune if times get rougher. I can't buy another house without selling this one, without a job. If I am still in this position in 6 months and UC is running out, the house will need to be sold and then I can easily downsize.

 

[bclover]

I could live in the duplex but wife won't. We are in our dream house that we built 10 years ago. A logical move would be to downsize but I hate to make any rash decisions while I am in a depressed state. I haven't run firecalc lately. I will run again tonight. I have been somewhat paralyzed with depression.

Hey Can't wait,

I'm going to address the depression issue. Please take care of this before selling, moving, withdrawing anything.

I KNOW OF WHAT I SPEAK, I lost my wonderful dh of 30 years to cancer. that first year was Hellasish to say the least. I was/am very fortunate that my BFF and my sister covered every thing until I could get the energy to crawl out of bed. You should have seen me the first time I tried to cut the grass (some thing my husband always did) talk about HOT Mess!!

anyway getting laid off is rough. rough on the brain.

I'm with ER Eddie, I would sit tight and take care of that.

Why would you want to make major financial decisions with 1/2 brain, I'm not saying that to be insulting but really that's what any depression does.

Please wait a while, get your sea legs underneath you.

Wishing you good luck.

 

[panhead]

You have gotten some great advice! Here is what I see and it looks good:

Nestegg: 850k *4% = 34k/year
rental income 12k/year
wife income 10k/year

total: 56k/year

So you need to make $14k/year to make your $70k/year? Dude that's like $7/hour, isn't that less than minimum wage? If I were you id be a bit wary of the handyman business due to liability, but I think a job at lowes or home depot is an awesome idea, or any hardware store for that matter. It appears this should more than cover your shortfall. It also looks like when SS hits, that will more than cover the income from the low paying job.
Keep looking for the high paying gig for 6 months or until UI runs out, then seriously consider the above. There are some things to figure out, like how to tap the IRA, but it is all doable.

I see no need to sell your house if it is truly your dream home. You may have to do more staycations there, but that may be fine for you. There is risk (some might say 4% is not safe, RE bust, etc), but as one of my favorite posters here used to say, "stay agile, mobile, and hostile" be ready to adjust fire if you have to, something we all have to be ready to do.

Best of luck!
-Pan-

 

[Cantwaitanylonger]

bc, so sorry for your loss. Thanks for sharing and giving advice. I am not making any large decisions in the near future. Comments like yours and others are helping me out of the depression.

Pan, Thanks for running the numbers. I have run them 1000 times but it is somehow reassuring to see them from someone else. You are right with the $7 per hour needed and the UC more than covers that. It just hit me last night that I can use the rule of 55 to get money from my employers 401K penalty free. I only have about 35 K in there.

One small ray of hope. I got a hit last night on one of my job searches and will interview in 3 weeks for a really good job. Trying not to get too hopeful....