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Old 12-19-2014, 03:19 PM   #41
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Copper would probably be better than gasoline as it has industrial uses but does not go bad or burn down your house.

Where are you going to put $100,000 of copper?
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Old 12-19-2014, 03:29 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ArkTinkerer View Post
My "aces in the hole" are a couple guns for hunting (with reloading equipment and supplies), farmland, and a good size garden. I don't deny that the guns could be used for defence against zombies but I prefer to shoot my enemies (deer, rabbits, squirrels) and then eat them. I have a bow and crossbow as the ultimate fallback plan but frankly, I would probably starve to death if I had to rely on those.

They are not the enemies. They are a source for survival. But I am with you. I don't own gun but if I am certain the world as we know it is coming to an end, I will trade my gold (all 200 pounds of it under someone's mattress) for guns and ammo, dry food, bunker, vaccination for zombinities, and start making friends with toughest looking neighbors.
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Old 12-19-2014, 03:39 PM   #43
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Do you know the location of that someone's mattress? Note that I did not say address. A photo of the RV? And you have no guns, but that RV'er may be armed to the teeth?

And to get back to the thread topic, the way of concealing gold that I describe is definitely not "living below your means". It's "sleeping on top of your means". Sweet dream!
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:09 PM   #44
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Do you know the location of that someone's mattress? Note that I did not say address. A photo of the RV? And you have no guns, but that RV'er may be armed to the teeth?

And to get back to the thread topic, the way of concealing gold that I describe is definitely not "living below your means". It's "sleeping on top of your means". Sweet dream!
I will have to do some detective work to track it down, starting with ER.org archives. Meanwhile, I need to secure bigger guns than "that" someone's.

Back to the OP - DS didn't know we were FI. It was a shock to him when he found out. That's how I know I was LBYM'ng.
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:19 PM   #45
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I will have to do some detective work to track it down, starting with ER.org archives. Meanwhile, I need to secure bigger guns than "that" someone's.

Back to the OP - DS didn't know we were FI. It was a shock to him when he found out. That's how I know I was LBYM'ng.
Good luck on your endeavor.

And about your son, perhaps he was thinking "How could Dad manage to save anything after what he spent on golf, and fancy TV and audiophile-grade stereo?".
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Old 12-19-2014, 05:58 PM   #46
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Everything is only worth what someone will pay for it.
This is precisely my point.
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Old 12-19-2014, 06:08 PM   #47
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Occasionally, people may decide that the piece of paper you are proposing to pay them with is worth a lot less, like the ruble right now.

There's really no certainty in this world, only probabilities. Something is more probable than others, but nothing is impossible. We live according to what we think most likely will happen. And of course people assign different probabilities to different thinkable outcomes.

Back on LBYM, none of our means is 100% certain. So I can live below my means today, but my means may shrink tomorrow.
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Old 12-19-2014, 07:59 PM   #48
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If we delay SS till 70, we will be getting $66K in today's dollars. I may not care to spend more than that at 70, let alone 95.

Or when we are older, may need spend a lot more for home care, like the father of a poster who needs $16K/month or $192K/year for 24-hour personal care. That's serious money. I think I'll just die quickly.
That is the real problem. All the research I've read says that. You need like $200K to pay for health care in retirement and spending for health care goes up as you get older, while other spending tends to decrease. So do I plan for more at 85 or do the 2 cancel ech other out? My plan is to live off pensions and SS after 70 but will have significant (to me at least) funds in IRA at that time. RMD will cause me to move from IRA to cash after tax account but will we need that for medical expenses? Who can say.
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Old 12-19-2014, 08:04 PM   #49
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If you do not mind not having personal 24/7 care at home, meaning having your own day and night nurses, nursing homes are not as expensive. Yes, you may have to share a room with another patient, in order to reduce costs. And if you are broke, the state will pay for it.

Party on!
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Old 12-20-2014, 06:18 AM   #50
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i look at the results from the retirement calculators and plan around worst case. i use the fidelity one often.

the calculators do not include real world spending pattern changes as we age .

they also include yearly inflation adjusting which when considered with spending pattern changes may be way over stated. studies show the drop in spending usually offsets the increases in what you do buy assuming you have a moderate amount of descretionary spending in your budget.


so we figure if we stay below what the calculators give as as a budget in the 90% range we should be well covered if our spending is below.
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Old 12-20-2014, 06:41 AM   #51
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i look at the results from the retirement calculators and plan around worst case. i use the fidelity one often.

the calculators do not include real world spending pattern changes as we age.
With Fidelity RIP, you can adjust spending or income. Look at the variable expenses and income. Start/stop any variable at a given year, or age.
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Old 12-20-2014, 07:55 AM   #52
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yes you can alter spending budgets but it is not the same thing since you really have no clue yet what to alter.

spending is smile shapped through retirement. higher spending early on , a big drop in retirement spending in the middle ages and ramping up again in the later part from healthcare.gifting and charity.

that big drop off offsets a whole lot of inflation adjusting., in fact historically while 3-4% a year has been a ballpark actual studies show 2% in the early years , zero to 1% in the mid years and 2% in the later years would have been just fine.

that leaves quite a bit of slack in a plan built around 3-4% increases every year.
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Old 12-20-2014, 08:25 AM   #53
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Copper would probably be better than gasoline as it has industrial uses but does not go bad or burn down your house.

Where are you going to put $100,000 of copper?

So the chinese have been selling copper to retail consumers as a long term investment. The vendors store tons of copper in large warehouses, and theses consumers have been blamed for high copper prices for the last few years.


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Old 12-20-2014, 10:00 AM   #54
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So the chinese have been selling copper to retail consumers as a long term investment. The vendors store tons of copper in large warehouses, and theses consumers have been blamed for high copper prices for the last few years.


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Seems a reasonable thing to do. It is a fixed resource with relatively high extraction costs and will be in high demand as the world transitions from a coal/oil powered grid to a wind/hydro/solar/geo/fusion powered grid and all of the millions of miles of wiring needed (plus the 100 or so pounds of copper used in electric vehicles for motor windings and battery interconnects).

I would be a lot more comfortable right now with a warehouse full of copper than an equivalent monetary amount of rubles in my bank account.
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Old 12-20-2014, 10:04 AM   #55
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I would be a lot more comfortable right now with a warehouse full of copper than an equivalent monetary amount of rubles in my bank account.
You would have lost you arse over the last year. As the Chinese had artificially inflated it, when their housing bust started they began selling. It's plummeted like oil. Copper was a bubble if you ever saw one.


All you want to know about copper....
http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/co...cal_large.html
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Old 12-25-2014, 06:01 PM   #56
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I'm still banking part of every month's pension check. So, I think I'm in LBYM territory.
Ditto. My income stream is very predictable (pension and fixed annuity).

The quick and dirty method...no spreadsheets for this girl.

I look at my beginning, middle and year end credit union cash balances in 2 different accounts.
Account 1 is the income repository account. I transfer cash from Account 1 to Account 2, the expense account which is linked to everything I can pay through direct ACH and all of my credit cards for online payment.

I can roughly guess how well I did with spending on an annual basis.

I use that difference to see how well or poorly I stayed within my means.
I've been at this for 7 years now, so very close tracking of monthly expenses is no longer necessary.

Fall is a big payout time for me, with school/property taxes and auto/house insurance policies due. I know what I need for these items, so I make sure that amount is already in the expense account by June.

K.I.S.S.
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Old 12-25-2014, 07:31 PM   #57
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I've been in a lot of discussions over the last few years about gold. My position is that it's a commodity worth what someone will pay for it. I could stockpile coffee beans for the same effect.
You'd need a pretty large stockroom, and the coffee would soon be stale and worthless.

Ha
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Old 12-25-2014, 09:19 PM   #58
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Copper would probably be better than gasoline as it has industrial uses but does not go bad or burn down your house.

Where are you going to put $100,000 of copper?
Actually at the current price it would be about 35,000 pounds which given that copper is about 559 lbs per cubic foot would 62 cubic feet. (assuming it was all ingots) So a substantial volume but not that hard to get a 4 foot by 4 foot by 4 foot cube would do, so a standard storage unit would easily hold it.
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Old 12-25-2014, 09:40 PM   #59
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You'd need a pretty large stockroom, and the coffee would soon be stale and worthless.

Ha
I'm for stockpiling whiskey. Cheap hootch for trading and good sipping whiskey for personal use. Of course I'll need a large stockroom too.
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Old 12-25-2014, 09:47 PM   #60
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I'm for stockpiling whiskey. Cheap hootch for trading and good sipping whiskey for personal use. Of course I'll need a large stockroom too.
Actually a good store of value. Recall that the whiskey rebellion occured because the farmers in western PA converted their corn to whiskey and shipped it east because corn was not worth shipping over the excuses for roads that were in place in the 1790s. They did not like the government taxing the whiskey they made.
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