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Old 07-20-2013, 09:14 AM   #21
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The one big advantage of Detroit is everything is cheap there.
Even food and energy?
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:17 AM   #22
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That is why I added the at what ability level. Experienced policemen etc will just leave and take jobs in the suburbs as they have been doing. Finding bodies yes, bodies with skills at lower salaries and benefits? Would you?
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:19 AM   #23
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Losing skilled workers to suburban jurisdictions is and as been a problem for many cities. That's part of why they dig financial holes for themselves trying to recruit and retain. The key word is retained as suburban governments love workers with 5-10 years experience with good track records. It cuts down own their training costs.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:25 AM   #24
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I've lived in metro Detroit all my life and I don't see any easy answers. The city proper is 138 square miles with 700,000 mostly poor and poorly educated residents. In other cities, there are the poor, but Detroit has managed to concentrate that poverty in an extreme way. The result is way too much infrastructure that cannot be maintained and giant legacy costs from all the past city employees, most of whom have long fled the city.

For the near term, I see a city with services reduced to the absolute minimum just grinding along day to day. Until there is a reason for the middle class to move back within Detroit city limits, there is no recovery or growth.

In the meantime, we have schadenfreude and finger pointing.
I've never been to Detroit, but there was a possibility that my DH would be transferred there in the mid-00s. I went to look at houses online and I couldn't believe how nice some of the housing stock is in Detroit proper. There's a lot of brick and lovely interior woodwork! I wish there was a way to transport some of those beauties.

I'm curious how some of those old churches are maintained, especially since the population has dwindled so much and aren't really in a position to give. Do people commute in?
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:32 AM   #25
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Most businesses look for strong local demand before investing. Detroit doesn't have that, or really any other competitive advantage right now for business or skilled labor, and that would need to be part of a turnaround if we expect Detroit to recover.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:41 AM   #26
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Most businesses look for strong local demand before investing. Detroit doesn't have that, or really any other competitive advantage right now for business or skilled labor, and that would need to be part of a turnaround if we expect Detroit to recover.
Send the remaining folks suitcases and u-hauls then because they ain't gonna dig out of this hole without business investment. ( Sam Kinison reference).
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:44 AM   #27
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Detroit is on the verge of structural failure if it isn't there already.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:47 AM   #28
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I'm curious how some of those old churches are maintained, especially since the population has dwindled so much and aren't really in a position to give. Do people commute in?
From this website, many have been abandoned (along with other buildings): Detroiturbex.com - Locations
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:04 AM   #29
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Send the remaining folks suitcases and u-hauls then because they ain't gonna dig out of this hole without business investment. ( Sam Kinison reference).
Some insightful statistics about the "remaining folks"

47% of adults are functionally illiterate
High school dropout rate is 38%
71% of births are to unwed mothers
22% of households have no car
Actual jobless rate is about 50%
A major election to revise the city charter had a 10% participation rate
Per capital income is approximately $15,000
47% of homeowners don't pay their property taxes
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:11 AM   #30
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Some insightful statistics about the "remaining folks"

47% of adults are functionally illiterate
High school dropout rate is 38%
71% of births are to unwed mothers
22% of households have no car
Actual jobless rate is about 50%
A major election to revise the city charter had a 10% participation rate
Per capital income is approximately $15,000
47% of homeowners don't pay their property taxes
Sounds like SW Florida in 1950.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:15 AM   #31
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I hope Detroit's physical infrastructure doesn't undergo the problems New York City's did in the late 1970s and into the 1980s following its near-default in 1974-75. People who travel in NYC are still feeling the effects created by years and years of deferred maintenance (i.e. as simple as repainting to keep rust from forming) on some highways and its subways. For example, Manhattan once had an elevated, limited-access highway running down the entire west side. But thanks to bad maintenance, part of the roadway collapsed and nearly all of it had to be torn down, leaving a street-level road with traffic lights causing lots of congestion. In 1988 the Williamsburg Bridge had to be shut down for 2 weeks after corrosion was found in a floor beam. For 20 years starting in the mid-1980s, some subway tracks on the Manhattan Bridge have been closed so the bridge's structure could be strengthened, inconveniencing many riders (including me a few times).

I realize Detroit doesn't have the infrastructure that New York City does, but deferring needed maintenance for many years will cause problems later on no matter where it is.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:19 AM   #32
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I hope Detroit's physical infrastructure doesn't undergo the problems New York City's did in the late 1970s and into the 1980s following its near-default in 1974-75. People who travel in NYC are still feeling the effects created by years and years of deferred maintenance (i.e. as simple as repainting to keep rust from forming) on some highways and its subways. For example, Manhattan once had an elevated, limited-access highway running down the entire west side. But thanks to bad maintenance, part of the roadway collapsed and nearly all of it had to be torn down, leaving a street-level road with traffic lights causing lots of congestion. In 1988 the Williamsburg Bridge had to be shut down for 2 weeks after corrosion was found in a floor beam. For 20 years starting in the mid-1980s, some subway tracks on the Manhattan Bridge have been closed so the bridge's structure could be strengthened, inconveniencing many riders (including me a few times).

I realize Detroit doesn't have the infrastructure that New York City does, but deferring needed maintenance for many years will cause problems later on no matter where it is.
I think Detroit is beyond that point.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:34 AM   #33
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I worked in Detroit in the 1990s, and some portions of the infrastructure were iffy back then as far as I was concerned, especially around the old GM HQ.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:36 AM   #34
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I think Detroit is beyond that point.
Yes, a Google Earth flyover is instructional, particularly of the neighborhoods
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:47 AM   #35
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From a business point of view, old infrastructure is way better than no infrastructure. I'm assuming that Detroit's geographical location is still an asset for manufacturing and transporting goods. It seems ridiculous to fold up an entire city because it was horribly mismanaged by incompetence.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:00 AM   #36
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From this website, many have been abandoned (along with other buildings): Detroiturbex.com - Locations
Thanks for the link. It's very sad. So many pretty buildings!
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:18 AM   #37
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The only way Detroit can pay off it's debts is if they were to annex/join with the suburbs that surround it. That would be a difficult thing to do as I doubt the suburbs would go along with it.

I think they are screwed and will have to declare bankruptcy. Although it is possible the state/federal gov steps in to take on the debts. I don't think that is very likely.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:29 AM   #38
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If we act like ostriches and try to keep alive relics of another time like Detroit, we are being very stupid, and ultimately will lose out to younger, less encumbered nations. This may be inevitable anyway, but unenlightened political attitudes can make it much more certain.

Ha
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:37 AM   #39
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The only way Detroit can pay off it's debts is if they were to annex/join with the suburbs that surround it. That would be a difficult thing to do as I doubt the suburbs would go along with it.
The suburbs were created by people exiting Detroit - that is how the population went from about 2 million down to 700,000. There is no annexation or joining that is going to happen.

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I think they are screwed and will have to declare bankruptcy. Although it is possible the state/federal gov steps in to take on the debts. I don't think that is very likely.
Detroit has already filed for Chapter 9 bankruptcy.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:30 PM   #40
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Some insightful statistics about the "remaining folks"

47% of adults are functionally illiterate
High school dropout rate is 38%
71% of births are to unwed mothers
22% of households have no car
Actual jobless rate is about 50%
A major election to revise the city charter had a 10% participation rate
Per capital income is approximately $15,000
47% of homeowners don't pay their property taxes
Detroit owns $2 billion in art within the Detroit Institute of Arts that is owned by the City and apparently they cant be forced to and don't plan to sell it. Not sure if that's true or not, but based on the stats listed above, do you really think this is the demographic that takes full advantage of stuffy art museums? The City is falling down around them.. They don't need art. Once again, more mismanagement by politicians who are out of touch with reality.
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