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Old 09-09-2016, 11:36 AM   #21
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I find it interesting that it has been going on for years.... and that 5,300 employees were laid off...

We have been told over the years how great WF is compared to all the other 'bad banks'.... now, I guess all are bad...


Now the question is are their financials correct... probably not enough here to affect their prior stmts, but you never know...
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:41 AM   #22
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Seems like a criminal offense to me.


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By 5300 underlings, or by management?!


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Old 09-09-2016, 11:47 AM   #23
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Sounds a bit like what the phone companies do with "cramming".
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:27 PM   #24
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By 5300 underlings, or by management?!


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That's a good point. Both I guess but I don't have details to decide. The 5300 people is 2 pct of their payroll, but a much larger pct of employees actually in a position to abuse customers. If these 5300 were doing something adverse to the bank, mgt would have detected the problem. I've always considered WFC to be a great organization but no longer. I had the stock on my watch list and have family that work there in non sales positions. As much as I hate to blame the victims, they have some skin in this also. I read they reimbursements averaged $25, an amount that could be easily missed.


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Old 09-09-2016, 01:45 PM   #25
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WF is the industry leader in cross platform product sales. It's their pride and joy, and their largest shareholder (Mr. Buffet) has mentioned this as one reason he likes it so much. The branch personnel aren't harangued to sell - it's much worse - they have quotas, and not meeting quota is cause for job loss. This unavoidably leads to overselling. It would be no surprise to learn that some of those 5K were fired for not meeting quota.

We closed our account with WF after being charged for a service we neither wanted nor requested. When I complained they just kept sending me to speak with someone else in the branch, and on the phone, after numerous calls and escalations, they finally just said "tough luck" and hung up. I filed a complaint with the federal regulators, and it appears others did the same.

IMHO it is always a bad sign when a bank employee is more afraid of the branch manager than an irate customer.
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:58 PM   #26
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Had one experience with Wells Fargo one and a half years ago I thought was rather shady. I kept a high balance in one checking account (Portfolio Management Account, PMA), and a low balance in a 2nd checking account. They were both linked, so there were no fees.

But then Wells Fargo sent notice they were re-characterizing the checking accounts. They inexplicably designated the high balance account as a regular checking account, and the low balance account as the PMA account which is subject to low account balance monthly fees. When I saw a $30 service charge appear on one of my checking accounts, I called and said what is this for? The customer service explained I only had $1,000 in my newly designated PMA account, and it required a minimum $25,000 to avoid a $30 monthly service charge. I pointed out that my other checking account has over $80,000.00 in it, and I never requested these changes. The customer service gave up and agreed to credit my account the service charge as long as I transferred $24K into the other account.

I think by doing those shenanigans, Wells Fargo was generating lots of additional service charges on customers who actually had high balances like me. Hope that enough customers protested or closed their accounts so that they think twice before trying that again.
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Old 09-09-2016, 03:03 PM   #27
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WF is the industry leader in cross platform product sales. It's their pride and joy, and their largest shareholder (Mr. Buffet) has mentioned this as one reason he likes it so much. The branch personnel aren't harangued to sell - it's much worse - they have quotas, and not meeting quota is cause for job loss. This unavoidably leads to overselling. It would be no surprise to learn that some of those 5K were fired for not meeting quota.

We closed our account with WF after being charged for a service we neither wanted nor requested. When I complained they just kept sending me to speak with someone else in the branch, and on the phone, after numerous calls and escalations, they finally just said "tough luck" and hung up. I filed a complaint with the federal regulators, and it appears others did the same.

IMHO it is always a bad sign when a bank employee is more afraid of the branch manager than an irate customer.
Your case sounds like the type of situation that happened.
Perhaps you can get a refund for the fees
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:52 PM   #28
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WF is the industry leader in cross platform product sales. It's their pride and joy, and their largest shareholder (Mr. Buffet) has mentioned this as one reason he likes it so much. The branch personnel aren't harangued to sell - it's much worse - they have quotas, and not meeting quota is cause for job loss. This unavoidably leads to overselling. It would be no surprise to learn that some of those 5K were fired for not meeting quota.

We closed our account with WF after being charged for a service we neither wanted nor requested. When I complained they just kept sending me to speak with someone else in the branch, and on the phone, after numerous calls and escalations, they finally just said "tough luck" and hung up. I filed a complaint with the federal regulators, and it appears others did the same.

IMHO it is always a bad sign when a bank employee is more afraid of the branch manager than an irate customer.
You are correct. Personnel weren't harangued but instead abused:

"Former employees tell CNNMoney that they felt incredible demands from managers to meet sales quotas. The same managers turned a blind eye when ethical and even legal lines were crossed.
"I had managers in my face yelling at me," Sabrina Bertrand, who worked as a licensed personal banker for Wells Fargo in Houston in 2013, told CNNMoney."
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:16 PM   #29
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WF. Great company. Several years back I called around on refi rates and talked with them. Next day I went into the office and they tried to get me to sign pre-filled out contract that turned out to be for double the principle amount I wanted to borrow and at a rate a couple of percentage points higher than what was quoted the day before. Needless to say, I unload on them before exiting stage left. Won't be stepping into one of their offices again in this lifetime.
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:49 PM   #30
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One time I went to change a CD out at WF and the person kept pressing my for a debit card (which I did not want or need, since debit cards don't give the consumer protection that credit cards do). If you treat a credit card as a charge card (i.e. pay it off every month it works as good as a debit card)
As part of the disucssion the rep tried to tell me I needed it to cash a check at other branches, I told him that if WF would not take my check and passport as ID, I would have to find another bank. Eventually he let the conversation lapse. I guess now I understood why he did not want to take no for an answer. I do monitor the account daily and look at transactions and twice have had unexplained deposits appear, likley because someone wrote down an account number and did not use the preprinted form.
(This was over 10 years ago though).
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:12 PM   #31
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Seriously though, how exactly would all this work? Assuming a WF employee created a phony account using an actual customer's personal info, how would that account have been funded? And wouldn't any fees that were generated by that fake account have triggered notices (emails, letters, calls, etc.) to the actual customer? Need to read more about this to fully understand it, I guess.
What I heard today was many was business accounts that were opened and when the new customer went to open the account for the businesses they added the paperwork for up to 9 additional accounts - credit cards - savings and by doing this would charge fees. Since many new businesses are busy and donít unfortunately look at their statements the customer service gets sales of new accounts for their record and meets management goals.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:58 PM   #32
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What I heard today was many was business accounts that were opened and when the new customer went to open the account for the businesses they added the paperwork for up to 9 additional accounts - credit cards - savings and by doing this would charge fees. Since many new businesses are busy and donít unfortunately look at their statements the customer service gets sales of new accounts for their record and meets management goals.


Oh... this is where the big problems can be... a business account has one big number taken out... you pay for each check, deposit, if you have online access etc. etc.... LOTS of charges that someone has to look at the account analysis to see...

I would see fees tacked on that I would have to call up all the time to get reversed...

I remember once we were technically overdrawn during the day... so they charged an overdraft fee... but I had a deposit in before the day was up so it was during the day... now, we had a LOC with them, but they charged a HIGH fee that was 3X what the LOC would cost... they finally agreed that they should only charge the LOC fee.... even though I thought they should not charge us anything...
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:33 PM   #33
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Forget about being loyal as customers. Best to be nimble and opt for the best deals. We left WF years ago.
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Old 09-20-2016, 03:37 PM   #34
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Did anybody see any of the testimony from the CEO today

Man, did he look bad... Warren skewered him.... all he could say is 'the board...' over and over again.... would not even say his opinion... did not even think it was major fraud... no executive fired and no bonus money clawed back...


How can someone in his position be so tone deaf....


BTW, it seems the executive in charge of the unit where it happened retired and is walking away with between $90 and $125 million... and if she had been fired would have lost about $45 million....
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:44 PM   #35
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Email your senator: tell him/her to put the Wells Fargo CEO, John Stumpf in jail. Google the number of times that Wells Fargo has been fined for unethical and illegal practices. Obviously, fines have not changed their behavior. So, put the CEO in jail. Maybe that will get their attention. It makes me sick that these kind of practices go on and only minimally penalized.
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:00 PM   #36
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Why did WF stock jump in price ?

Is someone priming it for a fall or buying while WF's blood is in the streets ??


" Shares of Wells Fargo & Co. WFC, +1.20% shot up 2.3% in morning trade Tuesday, after Morgan Stanley turned bullish, saying that the recently volatility has provided a buying opportunity. "

Wells Fargo's stock jumps after Morgan Stanley turns bullish - MarketWatch

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Old 09-20-2016, 06:22 PM   #37
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They only paid about 2-3 million in refunds to customers so even with the fines so far they are still way way ahead.


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Old 09-20-2016, 10:39 PM   #38
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Email your senator: tell him/her to put the Wells Fargo CEO, John Stumpf in jail. Google the number of times that Wells Fargo has been fined for unethical and illegal practices. Obviously, fines have not changed their behavior. So, put the CEO in jail. Maybe that will get their attention. It makes me sick that these kind of practices go on and only minimally penalized.

+1. It won't stop until these high powered bank execs see serious jail time. What they do is far worse than armed robbery, but they have power, friends in high places, lobbyists and lawyers to isolate them from suffering the consequences of their actions. Laws need to be changed. Citizens United type rulings just made it worse.


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Old 09-20-2016, 11:14 PM   #39
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+1. It won't stop until these high powered bank execs see serious jail time. What they do is far worse than armed robbery, but they have power, friends in high places, lobbyists and lawyers to isolate them from suffering the consequences of their actions. Laws need to be changed. Citizens United type rulings just made it worse.


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The big problem is trying to prove that they caused the fraud... or knew about it and did nothing... most laws require intent to put someone in jail... as I used to say to coworkers when one company I worked at went under 'it is not against the law to be stupid'.... (then again, one of the top execs was taking kickbacks and did go to jail)....

I would think that the lady exec that ran the retail unit that walked away with millions would be more liable than the CEO...

I also would like to see some go to jail.... but if you remember Enron, where they did much worse than here, it was difficult to prosecute... but, the did put a number of people in jail...

Now, if they can find a 'smoking gun' on one of the execs.... or flip a lower level manager, they might be able to do something... I just do not think the Justice Dept really cares....
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Old 09-20-2016, 11:16 PM   #40
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.

Why did WF stock jump in price ?

Is someone priming it for a fall or buying while WF's blood is in the streets ??


" Shares of Wells Fargo & Co. WFC, +1.20% shot up 2.3% in morning trade Tuesday, after Morgan Stanley turned bullish, saying that the recently volatility has provided a buying opportunity. "

Wells Fargo's stock jumps after Morgan Stanley turns bullish - MarketWatch

.

I saw some talking heads today and they were saying that they buy when 'blood is in the streets'.... they think that this is a minor issue and will go away and the bank is making big money and paying a high divi.... if they are right, then the stock will jump... if more bad news comes out, it can fall...
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