Did you tithe while saving for FIRE?

[rw86347]

Every month I give away $1000, and save $2000. I refuse to stop giving, because I feel I have been lucky. As Warren Buffet says, I won the womb lottery. But secretly I wish I could invest 100% of my income.

 

[loosechickens]

For many years now, we have followed the practice of taking 10% off the top of whatever income or windfalls come to us and setting it aside for charity. It's not really any kind of religious thing, just our way of saying thank you to the Universe for our blessings, and a way of giving back.

We don't put the money in a separate bank account, but since we keep track of every penny of our income and our spending, it is a simple thing to transfer that 10% when it comes in to the "spirit" account page.

Once that money is on the "spirit" page, it doesn't belong to us any more in our minds, so it is easy to write checks or give away cash from that amount. It doesn't feel like it is taking away anything from us as we have no more rights to that money anyway.

On the heading for that page, we have this quote, "Everything is alive, everything is interrelated; all is sacred. Sharing fully of what we have in every sense completes the spirtual loop. It's our way of saying thanks to the Universe."

Some years that account page ends up in a negative balance, and we have given away more than 10%, and that is fine, but at the end of the year, if there is a positive balance, we sit down and disperse that money to start over again on January 1st.

Whatever goes around comes around, and we would prefer to err on the side of generosity than not.

Throughout life we have seen so many grasping people with the mental disease of "not enough". Sometimes they were even people with a great deal of money. The discipline of giving away money and practicing generosity is a wonderful antidote for that. It creates a feeling of abundance in your life, and a secure feeling of having enough.....in fact, having such an abundance that you are able to give a portion of it away. Nothing does better for that fear of "not having enough" than this practice.

That's our system, anyway, and it works for us.

LooseChickens

 

[happy2bretired]

Loosechickens...I really like your idea.

 

[hogtied]

Yes. "He owns the cattle on a thousand hills." Live by His rules and He will pour out blessings more than you can contain.

 

[samclem]

Since you used "tithe" and the 10% yardstick, I figured you were referring to religious giving. Nope.

We gave a lot to charities.

One note: if giving less cash today gets you to ER faster, you may be able to start giving more time at an earlier date. That can be a valuable commodity to some charities.

 

[rw86347]

Throughout life we have seen so many grasping people with the mental disease of "not enough". Sometimes they were even people with a great deal of money. The discipline of giving away money and practicing generosity is a wonderful antidote for that. It creates a feeling of abundance in your life, and a secure feeling of having enough.....in fact, having such an abundance that you are able to give a portion of it away. Nothing does better for that fear of "not having enough" than this practice.

Sounds like wisedom! nicely put.

 

[rw86347]

One note: if giving less cash today gets you to ER faster, you may be able to start giving more time at an earlier date. That can be a valuable commodity to some charities.

Warren Buffet said something simular. I worry that I would never repay the IOU.

Over time I have realized that money is 2 parts psychology and 1 part math. Like "LooseChickens" I feel like this is a health issue, that keeps me in check.

 

[Deetso]

I've found that once I started making money to the point where I was buying more than video games and pizzas- and actually started saving it and tracking it that I really enjoy being able to give it away. I dont make much now but I give away more than I save at the moment. (that doesnt count paying student loans which i do more than saving or giving away). My giving habit started out as soley... give 10% to the church... and has expanded to something even more. My habit has turned into a lifestyle- its been great.

I think it is quite freeing and actually I feel better about giving my money away (be it a charity or tithing) than anywhere else I put my money. I find myself second guessing purchases (I dont really need more socks- i can wear those ones a little longer) but if I give my money to a child in Ghana, or buy some clothes for a girl down the street- there is nothing better.

I credit LBYM for allowing me to do this. I couldnt do this with the latest cell phone, ipod or HDTV. Saving for my future and helping someone get to theirs is better than any toy.

Not only that- I have found that I am well ahead of my peers when it comes to saving as well. Even though I give I still always seem to have money to put away. Its a wonderful system, its quite difficult to explain to some people- but that is another post...

Ok- Ive gone on for long enough...

 

[rw86347]

I've found that once I started making money to the point where I was buying more than video games and pizzas- and actually started saving it and tracking it that I really enjoy being able to give it away. I dont make much now but I give away more than I save at the moment. (that doesnt count paying student loans which i do more than saving or giving away). My giving habit started out as soley... give 10% to the church... and has expanded to something even more. My habit has turned into a lifestyle- its been great.

I think it is quite freeing and actually I feel better about giving my money away (be it a charity or tithing) than anywhere else I put my money. I find myself second guessing purchases (I dont really need more socks- i can wear those ones a little longer) but if I give my money to a child in Ghana, or buy some clothes for a girl down the street- there is nothing better.

I credit LBYM for allowing me to do this. I couldnt do this with the latest cell phone, ipod or HDTV. Saving for my future and helping someone get to theirs is better than any toy.

Not only that- I have found that I am well ahead of my peers when it comes to saving as well. Even though I give I still always seem to have money to put away. Its a wonderful system, its quite difficult to explain to some people- but that is another post...

Ok- Ive gone on for long enough...

Nice! I know what you mean.

 

[Mwsinron]

I give clothes/items I dont use anymore to the Good Will. However I rarely make any monetary donations. Like last Christmas we collected toiletry's for the homeless and womans shelter. Never straight cash though because I never trust what it will be used for.

 

[HelpMeRhonda]

Charity is among the most important themes in my life at ths point. DW and I have been extremely fortunate and both agree we have much we owe this world. The amounts have grown over the years as our NW has. We only missed one yr when times were extremely difficult for us. We do it all anonymously and it feels even better.

We donate $ to local B&G club with the stimpulation it be spent on scholarships, baseball gloves, bats, etc for those without.
We do the same at the local HS as well.
We donate $ to local org for abused children.
We buy 4-6 4H animals at the fair every year and donate the meat to the local food shelter.

We are both on the B of Ds for these orgs. I'm coaching again this year for the 13th yr.

I owe much to the opportunites and people I've had/met thru sports. It was the one time while growing up I felt not having all the new, neat stuff didn't matter. That I was equal.

 

[OKLibrarian]

The long-term goal for our cash flow was inspired by this great catchphrase I heard on an NPR show a few months back about teaching kids money skills--"spend a third, save a third, share a third". Unfortunately, living in the grownup world of rent payments and groceries makes living on 33% a little challenging (though a noble long-term goal). We decided a 50-25-25 split would come close to the spirit of that concept. right now we're probably closer to 45-45-10 because we're so antsy to get out of rental purgatory that we're throwing nearly every penny we can spare into the house fund.

Once the house is bought and the cash flow situation stabilizes, we're hoping to get back to 50-30-20 or 50-25-25, depending on the difference that 5% makes to FIREcalc. Half our charity dollars go to church, the rest to a split between various local organizations, including a nonprofit that I'm on the board of (providing wellness activities like yoga, stress management, etc. to low income/at risk populations). Back not so long ago when we were still young and "broke", I realized that time tithes could be as important as cash ones, and I've always volunteered a good bit of my free time to things I care about. This is something I REALLY look forward to ramping up post-FIRE.

 

[Peaceful_Warrior]

We tithe regularly (not 10%, but still regularly) despite being on a single income, in addition to giving away things either through Goodwill, Freecycle, or Craigslist. Also, throughout the year we make up a few bag lunches and take them to the homeless downtown.

 

[kumquat]

I read 'tithe' as giving to a religious organization. We give lot's to charity, none to religion. 10%? maybe some years, more likely 5%.

 

[donheff]

I clicked on "not a penny" because I read tithing and assumed you meant giving to a religious organization. I did regularly contribute to charities, politicians, etc during my working years. Now I contribute time, primarily, and a smaller amount of cash to specific organizations I like.

 

[gandalf42]

We start with giving 10% to our local church. Then there are additional fundraisers and a variety of charities we give to.

Despite doing that all of our adult/married lives, we are were well on our way to FIRE. An unanticipated inheritance just happened to push the schedule up.

 

[CyclingInvestor]

I also voted "0%" assuming you meant some sort of church contributions.

I mainly support dog rescue organizations, with some contributions for
whatever my nieces / friends / friends kids are collecting for.

 

[777re777]

Absolutely! I learned early on in my adult life that everything I have is by the Grace of God. This is from someone who grew up extremely poor. Does God need my money, of course not. Giving away part of what all could be gone in the blink of an eye is but a small thing. I'm much further ahead by giving.

 

[Khan]

I give the same amount of money after retiring as I did before; but that amount is now about 10% of my gross.

No religious orgs but a few local groups.

I give stuff to local St Francis('cause it's close), and I also shop there.

 

[Siv]

Would giving to family count as charity?

Over the years although my mom has enough asset from my dad(single beneficary), she doesn't actually hold much cash...her checking account probably is only 10K. Bought her 5K watch, 8K furniture, 2K bag...that sort of things. I also make sure when she comes visit me that her ticket is reimbursed and she has enough fun money for shopping. My weakness is I really like to make sure that she has enough because when we were growing up, I know she never shop for herself...her money is basically household money spent on food. We get new clothes probably twice a year....now that I can afford it, I think it's time to spoil her. By the way, she's 62, great health.

My brother is now running the business and I know although it's not bad, he's quite leveraged. I don't like debts so it sometimes worry me.

 

[jbbaab44]

The levites could receive tithes because they had no increase, but had to trust God for their inheritance. The other Israelites gave tithes because they had an inheritance, but had to trust God for an increase. Today, the "laymen" still have to give a tithe and still trust God for their increase, but the "church staff" receives the tithe and takes inheritances among the people. Somehow our leaders have taken the doctrine of tithing and fit it into the gospel the comfortably fits their circumstances.

The NT way of giving is supposed to be only by freewill offerings, because we all are priests, and are only wandering in a wilderness waiting to cross the Jordon to receive our eternal inheritance. While in the wildreness, Israel only gave freewill offerings. they did not give the tithe until they crossed the jordon and entered the promised land. So it would make sense that as God's chosen people we give our offerings freely and cheerfully, and then when we receive our eternal inheritance in heaven of jewels and crowns then we throw them at the high priests feet.

tithe offerings

 

[rw86347]

The levites could receive tithes because they had no increase, but had to trust God for their inheritance. The other Israelites gave tithes because they had an inheritance, but had to trust God for an increase. Today, the "laymen" still have to give a tithe and still trust God for their increase, but the "church staff" receives the tithe and takes inheritances among the people. Somehow our leaders have taken the doctrine of tithing and fit it into the gospel the comfortably fits their circumstances.

The NT way of giving is supposed to be only by freewill offerings, because we all are priests, and are only wandering in a wilderness waiting to cross the Jordon to receive our eternal inheritance. While in the wildreness, Israel only gave freewill offerings. they did not give the tithe until they crossed the jordon and entered the promised land. So it would make sense that as God's chosen people we give our offerings freely and cheerfully, and then when we receive our eternal inheritance in heaven of jewels and crowns then we throw them at the high priests feet.

tithe offerings

My point was not to have a theological discussion. I was simply currious about giving while saving for retirement. And the effect it has on saving.

 

[loosechickens]

My point was not to have a theological discussion. I was simply currious about giving while saving for retirement. And the effect it has on saving.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's certainly possible, and maybe even probable that the person who does not give generously ends up with a bigger pile of money. But I would be willing to bet that the person who practices generosity throughout life, while maybe having less actual dollars in their pile in the end than the other person , will feel more secure, less fearful of not having enough, and, in general will feel more satisfaction with life.

It's a funny thing, but clutching on to things, trying to get more and more for ourselves, seems to feed fear, seems to feed that hungry ghost of "not enough" disease, and no matter how big the pile gets, it never feels like enough for the person to truly feel secure. I've known people with multimillions who still buy lottery tickets, because with all they have, it still doesn't feel like enough.

Only generosity, only practicing abundance in your life seems to address that "not enough" disease. And when one is free of the hole in the soul of "not enough", life will feel abundant, even if the actual dollars are less.

I don't know why it works that way, but it really does. The only cure for that feeling that you need to grasp hold of every penny is to give some away. It works like magic, and somehow, when you do, there is always enough.

It has nothing to do with religion to us. It is just the way the Universe works.

LooseChickens

 

[citrine]

I love giving money away......I have found that if you have both hands clutched tightly over what you have.....you don't have one hand open to receive any blessings.

My mother is horrified at what I give away....I hate a lot of clutter and sometimes, I get a little carried away with books and clothes...but I don't bring any in without giving some away. The more I do this....the more I have...I don't question it!

I know this girl....just turned 30 makes about 95K a year and is always complaining how she does not have enough to survive in NJ! What a crock of doo doo

 

[kaudrey]

I give both my time and money to a variety of charities (retiring in 15 years). But I don't tithe.

Karen