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Old 07-13-2010, 09:18 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by HpRyder View Post
The DoD doesnít take your passport. Nor do they require you to renounce your UK citizenship. In fact, you donít own your passport. It is the property of a government. They only allow you to hold it. You can return it to the UK embassy and have them hold it for you or you can keep it in your possession.
True, but as a condition of getting the job offer the FSO at the contractor required me to cut up my British passport so that it couldn't be used and then held it in my security file as proof that I could no longer travel on it.


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In fact that job could disappear in 1 minute. As a contractor you are employed minute to minute. You have no job security, you are employed at will. Just like a full time employee, only more expensive. Iíve had jobs disappear over the week end and only known about it when I showed up to work.
Exactly, and I was worried about that.

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Not true. Your passport use is not showing a foreign preference, nor is approval needed. Especially at the relative low security level (Secret) you've indicated you'll apply for. There is no monitoring of your comings & goings. Your only requirement is to disclose.
This is not what I understood from my research. I renewed my UK passport after I got US citizenship which could be considered foreign preference, but it would have been mitigated by my not understanding the clearance issues and by surrendering my UK passport to the FSO.
I would also have been required to report all foreign travel to the FSO.


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Where did you ever get this idea? DoD doesnít tell you to give up any rights. They only ask for disclosure, and that you donít break any US laws.

There is no loyalty test, only your contractual agreement not to disclose information and follow the rules to prevent disclosing information entrusted to you. I believe loyalty tests have been banned.
The briefing I was given stated that to get a clearance I would not be able to exercise any rights or privileges of my British citizenship. I wouldn't be giving them up exactly, but promising not to use them.
As a dual citizen I would not have got an interim clearance, but I would have been able to work on non-classified things while my SF86 was being processed. I was told that it would take between 6 and 12 months for me
to have an interview. I might have "passed" that, however, if I'd ever been asked about willingness to renounce British citizenship I would have said "No". I know that they don't require you to actually revoke another citizenship, but I don't think that answer would have been helpful in getting the clearance.

In the end I was not willing to take a contract job that depended on a clearance that I think I have a 50/50 chance of getting.

Also put yourself in my position. If you are a natural born US citizen and moved to the UK and took UK citizenship, would you feel comfortable cutting up your US passport to get a UK defence job?
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:46 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by nun View Post
True, but as a condition of getting the job offer the FSO at the contractor
As I remember, FSO stands for Foreign Service Office, not Department Of Defense. Was this a Department Of State contract position?

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required me to cut up my British passport so that it couldn't be used and then held it in my security file as proof that I could no longer travel on it.
That is a company requirement, not a DoD one. I'm pretty sure its illegal. And I've never heard of it occurring at a company working a DoD contract in the US. But thats not to say it never does. Companies do very funny things these days. I remember long ago reading about some middle eastern countries imported workers. Upon entry to the country to work they took their passports and kept them at the company. The companies later refuse to return the passports so the workers become essentially company captives. This requirement smacks of that same approach and I don't think its legal.

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Originally Posted by nun View Post
This is not what I understood from my research. I renewed my UK passport after I got US citizenship which could be considered foreign preference, but it would have been mitigated by my not understanding the clearance issues and by surrendering my UK passport to the FSO.
I've known & worked with many contractors with foreign passports. Last year one of them had his house burn to the ground. His family was back home visiting and he was at work. He was left with only his car, the money in his pocket, his credit cards and the clothes he was wearing. Among his papers burnt to ashes was his foreign passport. He had only a small amount of trouble getting a new one issued. The regional security office assisted him in getting a replacement. If it was a DoD security requirement for him not to have a foreign passport, they sure would not have helped him. Since he was planning to leave the country to visit his family for hollidays, they did require him to deposit his passport at the foreign embassy so his travels would be tracked via his US passport. In no case did they suggest destruction of his passport or that he renounce his foreign citizenship.

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I would also have been required to report all foreign travel to the FSO.
Typically you notify a company security officer, not DoD, of your foreign travel plans and they brief you about current situations in those areas, situations you should be aware of and suggest to you how to act to not draw attention to yourself. Not a big deal, takes about 10 minutes and is not intrusive.

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Originally Posted by nun View Post
The briefing I was given stated that to get a clearance I would not be able to exercise any rights or privileges of my British citizenship. I wouldn't be giving them up exactly, but promising not to use them.
As a foreign national in the US, what rights or privileges would these be? Not to use the British Embassy? Avoid paying taxes, social security contributions,...? Foreign nationals in the US pretty much have the same rights & privileges as US citizens. The only thing I can currently think of is a foreign pension. But that would be declaired on your US tax return & taxed.

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As a dual citizen I would not have got an interim clearance,
Really, this is news to me. I'll have to call my shops security officer and ask.

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Originally Posted by nun View Post
but I would have been able to work on non-classified things while my SF86 was being processed. I was told that it would take between 6 and 12 months for me to have an interview.
Typical approach in the industry is to have you work on non-classified or sanitized items, in a segregated area.

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Originally Posted by nun View Post
I might have "passed"
As you realise, the company does not "pass" you. They have no real input into the decision. They cannot review your online application answers. They don't handle youre SF86 at all. They only give you the account one time use password to start the time limited application. In fact, any time they ask how your application is going the only answer they get is "its in process".

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if I'd ever been asked about willingness to renounce British citizenship
You will never be asked. You've already swarn allegiance to the US when you accepted US citizenship.

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Originally Posted by nun View Post
In the end I was not willing to take a contract job that depended on a clearance that I think I have a 50/50 chance of getting.
I think you had a much better than 50/50 chance, probably like 80% chance. After all you've already been working in the US for an extended period.

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Originally Posted by nun View Post
Also put yourself in my position. If you are a natural born US citizen and moved to the UK and took UK citizenship, would you feel comfortable cutting up your US passport to get a UK defence job?
No. I'd pass on working for this company and find another company placing contractors at the same client site. Rairly does a client use only one job shop to fill contractor positions.

I think you conclusion, based on financial, not clearance considerations is the correct one for you.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:21 PM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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HpRyder,
FSO is Facility Security Officer.

As you know I was dealing with the contractor and not the DoD. Giving up the passport was required by the contractor, it might be illegal, but I wasn't going to argue.

As a British citizen major privilege is the use of the British passport, I've voted in a UK election since getting my US citizenship and I continue to pay into the UK social security system. But the major thing is the emotional connection to the UK
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:34 PM   #44
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Seems to me it should be an "Easy Job Decision" and you have made it. Congrats on integrity.

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Bottomline I couldn't make those promises in good faith. I would have just been making them to get the clearance and once I'd left the company and lost the clearance I would have applied for a new passport.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:13 AM   #45
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Seems to me it should be an "Easy Job Decision" and you have made it. Congrats on integrity.
Well, I'm in a field where most exciting work needs a security clearance, and that's where most of the jobs are too. So by deciding not to pursue a clearance I've probably limited my job opportunities by 70%, hence the
difficulty of my decision
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