divorce affecting FIRE plans

[Danmar]

From a financial point of view, divorces are often difficult because of the matrimonial home. Often, it is impossible for one party to buy the other party out and keep possession. In my case the financial terms were so one sided, she got to keep the house and I paid for it. This was ok by me because I didn't want my daughter to have to move. It resulted in financial hardship for me though, maybe 5 years of living paycheck to paycheck, borrowing when necessary to keep them in the house. Meanwhile I was in a small rental apartment, no car, couldnt really afford suits for work. Luckily I met a wonderful woman (currently my wife of 22 years) who understood the issues and actually helped me out financially. In the overall scheme of things it's remarkable it worked out so well, for everyone.

I always said to myself "do the right thing because you have to look yourself in the eye every morning when you shave". Never had any problem doing that.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

My ex and I divorced right after I got out of law school. (I started law school late because we had children). Ex was/is a ne'er do well but he loves the kids. The divorce was horrible and left me broke and bankrupt. Also the main reason I focused on being a family law attorney.

I tell the clients all the time "your fight over Tupperware will buy me a Cadillac". I work very hard to help people get divorced with the least conflict and without going broke. Honestly not always possible. A few lawyers give us a bad rap too.

Now that I have a business partner the only cases I take are mediation of divorces and cases where I am the GAL- which means I represent the children in the worst divorces imaginable. Most of the time the kids have more sense than the parents.

Since my divorce I have dated the same man for 14 years. We will not marry. Both have businesses and kids. I don't like prenups they aren't infallible. We used to live together but I have decided to move. I think the relationship will be better with our own homes.

I have seen too much go wrong. I like the separation and I like having control over my life.

Anecdotal stories are good, but your insight as a family law attorney would be quite interesting/valuable. Not for those contemplating divorce, but for those contemplating marriage.

 

[prose3589]

Anecdotal stories are good, but your insight as a family law attorney would be quite interesting/valuable. Not for those contemplating divorce, but for those contemplating marriage.

Everyone's circumstances are different and unique. I think my story summed up my point on marriage. I did it. I won't do it again. Divorce is financially devastating. Prenups are not bulletproof. A person can be reasonable in a divorce but you can't control the other side. I like control of my life.

Can't and won't give specific advice as family law varies greatly from state to state.

 

[Amethyst]

Couple of years? (not thirty!) I'm throwing up in my mouth thinking of how it must have felt when you found out the truth.

Sorry, but no one knows someone else's situation. And as for "actresses", my ex-wife was sleeping around for a couple of years, with a couple of different guys and came home with a smile, a hug, (and much more) every day. Academy award winner....

 

[street]

I haven't been through a divorce and I hope I don't ever have too. For me it would sad and hard for me to go through but because of what you will lose in material things and money but the hurt that goes along with a divorce.

I admire all of you that have went through it and got back up and FIRE or RE and hve recovered financially.

 

[Yarnstormer]

I rolled it into an IRA that's now worth $250k and I still have her as the beneficiary as that seems fair.

I think I love you !! What a nice thing to do.

Seriously, saving for a single retirement is harder. No spousal ss benefit, must plan on hiring care possibly sooner because there is no spouse to help out and in the event of the death of either partner that single person might be left raising a child alone with single person finances if there are kids in the mix.

Two can live cheaper than one!

 

[jollystomper]

I haven't been through a divorce and I hope I don't ever have too. For me it would sad and hard for me to go through but because of what you will lose in material things and money but the hurt that goes along with a divorce.

I admire all of you that have went through it and got back up and FIRE or RE and have recovered financially.

+1

within a year before and a year after we married, DW and I must have attended about a dozen weddings of friends and relatives (one stretch was 5 consecutive weekends of weddings). It saddens us that the majority of the couples are no longer together, and to see both the financial and emotional issues that still linger 33+ years later.

It has also been sad to see several friends of our kids, still in their 20s, whom we have known since they where in grade school, already dealing with their own divorce situations.

DW and I have speculated several times about, if we ever got divorced, what the financial impact would be. We both came to the conclusion that monetarily we both would be fine - but it would not be as much fun without each other.

 

[Mdlerth]

Chicken or egg

I posted earlier about my own marital tontine, but as this thread continued another thought presented itself.

I wonder how often the divorce is not the cause of financial difficulty, but a symptom of it. I was once told by a professional counselor that most marriages break up not because of infidelity or drugs but because of money problems. That more $$ problems follow afterwards would make sense.

 

[Carpediem]

Curious to know how many retirees entered retirement paying alimony? I am half way into mine (and still w*rking) and it's one of the things holding me back from ER.

 

[Danmar]

Curious to know how many retirees entered retirement paying alimony? I am half way into mine (and still w*rking) and it's one of the things holding me back from ER.

I am still paying. Retired 10 years. We didn't finalize the deal until after I retired so this was a big uncertainty to ER. In Canada alimony is very common and often open ended. I will be paying alimony as long as she is alive. In fact if I predecease her, my estate must continue to pay. So effectively my second wife must pay the first wife. Crazy,eh? Luckily, I inserted a clause in our final agreement that allows me to replace these alimony payments with a life annuity. I intend to avail myself of this option, perhaps as early as next year and finally get that "monkey" off my back for good.

 

[Carpediem]

I will be paying alimony as long as she is alive. In fact if I predecease her, my estate must continue to pay.

Ugh....sorry to hear that. I almost experienced a similar fate - until I replaced my incompetent attorney with a bad a$$ one.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I am still paying. Retired 10 years. We didn't finalize the deal until after I retired so this was a big uncertainty to ER. In Canada alimony is very common and often open ended. I will be paying alimony as long as she is alive. In fact if I predecease her, my estate must continue to pay. So effectively my second wife must pay the first wife. Crazy,eh? Luckily, I inserted a clause in our final agreement that allows me to replace these alimony payments with a life annuity. I intend to avail myself of this option, perhaps as early as next year and finally get that "monkey" off my back for good.

I plan to be reincarnated as an exwife of yours (I promise to be the best exwife ever)

 

[Danmar]

Ugh....sorry to hear that. I almost experienced a similar fate - until I replaced my incompetent attorney with a bad a$$ one.

I don't blame my lawyers. My last lawyer was one of the top family law practitioners in Toronto. In the end, I could afford it and actually wanted everyone to be happy. My daughter would have been disappointed in me if I had "put the screws" to her mother and this might have affected our relationship.

In the overall scheme of things, after 15 years of bitter litigation, I really wanted some closure. Looked bad for a while since we did this deal in late 2007. But luckily everything is working out very well financially. This highlights the idea that it's better to be generous even if you think the other side is unreasonable.

 

[Danmar]

I plan to be reincarnated as an exwife of yours (I promise to be the best exwife ever)

Sorry, but I can only afford one ex wife and that position has been taken.

 

[Music Lover]

I divorced a spendarina wife after less than 3 years of marriage. The spending was only part of the problem...there were other issues at play that made divorce inevitable. Luckily, I found out early enough and took immediate steps and will only lose half of 2 years/8 months of my 35 years of govt. pension. Also, in spite of the differences, neither one of us wanted to make lawyers rich and the split of assets went very smoothly. We had just purchased a house with a very small down payment and I kept it in exchange for taking over her car loan which was roughly equal to the house equity.

The only legal cost in the divorce was the filing of paperwork.

 

[Nemo2]

Sorry, but I can only afford one ex wife and that position has been taken.

In the interest of equality I hereby apply for the position of future ex-husband - however I must warn you that I feel a series of consecutive headaches coming on.

 

[Danmar]

In the interest of equality I hereby apply for the position of future ex-husband - however I must warn you that I feel a series of consecutive headaches coming on.

Actually, you'll be glad to hear that ex spouses don't have any responsibilities along those lines.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Maybe your DD always wanted a sister? I could do that....

 

[haha]

Anecdotal stories are good, but your insight as a family law attorney would be quite interesting/valuable. Not for those contemplating divorce, but for those contemplating marriage.

I think she has already covered that. Don't do it!

Ha

 

[Nemo2]

Actually, you'll be glad to hear that ex spouses don't have any respondility along those lines.

I neglected to specify that I was applying for the position of your ex-husband.

 

[Pilot2013]

I am still paying. Retired 10 years. We didn't finalize the deal until after I retired so this was a big uncertainty to ER. In Canada alimony is very common and often open ended. I will be paying alimony as long as she is alive. In fact if I predecease her, my estate must continue to pay. So effectively my second wife must pay the first wife. Crazy,eh? Luckily, I inserted a clause in our final agreement that allows me to replace these alimony payments with a life annuity. I intend to avail myself of this option, perhaps as early as next year and finally get that "monkey" off my back for good.

I think this kind of thing will be the undoing of marriage, in the traditional sense. It's just unreasonable to think that a person, after a certain period of time, cannot "fend for themselves". It's not that hard, the smallest children eventually do it!

 

[Danmar]

I think this kind of thing will be the undoing of marriage, in the traditional sense. It's just unreasonable to think that a person, after a certain period of time, cannot "fend for themselves". It's not that hard, the smallest children eventually do it!

Agree but my case was a little unusual given my high profile. The point you raised was made in many media outlets when the judgement became public.

However, the real issue in my case was the finding that I had an ongoing responsibility to keep her appraised of my earnings. It was only in the final agreement that I was able to have this requirement dropped. Up till that point everything was still open to"a material change in circumstances".

I am still very positive on marriage and did it all again (22 years ago) without a prenup.

 

[Chuckanut]

Ag

However, the real issue in my case was the finding that I had an ongoing responsibility to keep her appraised of my earnings. It was only in the final agreement that I was able to have this requirement dropped. Up till that point everything was still open to"a material change in circumstances".

I used to work with a lady who married a divorced man. She was shocked to find that when she got a promotion with a substantial raise, HER income could now be taken into account and her husband's alimony payment went up quite a bit thus negating a good part of her raise.

The ex-wife was living with a wealthy guy so his income did not come into the picture. About 6 months later when her old job opened up again, she requested a demotion to it - less stress, fewer hours and after the alimony payment was reduce, not much loss of income.

 

[sheehs1]

To the OP's question about divorce affecting ER plans: I divorced a little over 2 years ago and it did not affect my retirement plans because I insisted on and managed to get a signed Post Marital Separation Agreement years before the actual separation/divorce. He did not challenge it.
My marriage of over 22 years however WAS affecting my retirement plans as well as the peace and serenity of my life. I wrote about it on this forum as "another marriage bites the dust due to financial incompatibility" or something like that...so some of you may remember. He was a gambler in all ways along with some other addictions. Not the life I had imagined when getting married to this professional UNC graduate with his own CPA practice and more than disappointing. (which is why it took me so very long to finally do it- not to mention the children involved).

I asked for nothing as I wanted the Agreement to remain in tact. So he has no financial responsibilities to me nor I to him. While I can file for 1/2 his SSN, it doesn't matter as my own will always be more than 1/2 of his.

Due to this experience I admittedly will not ever marry again. Even wanting a relationship has been a struggle (although I have dated and met people) but I am starting to think maybe...maybe....in another year that might be something I am more open about and may pursue IF I meet someone I'm compatible with. Just not quite there yet.

 

[Danmar]

I used to work with a lady who married a divorced man. She was shocked to find that when she got a promotion with a substantial raise, HER income could now be taken into account and her husband's alimony payment went up quite a bit thus negating a good part of her raise.

The ex-wife was living with a wealthy guy so his income did not come into the picture. About 6 months later when her old job opened up again, she requested a demotion to it - less stress, fewer hours and after the alimony payment was reduce, not much loss of income.

Wow, never heard of that. My second wife's income never became an issue although I seem to recall they tried.