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Old 07-18-2011, 02:05 PM   #41
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22 years together, attributable to our financial compatibility.

Been seeing things a bit too close up with a couple that are friends of ours. They keep all funds separate and they just seem to be on totally different pages for spending. I am trying very hard not to give unsolicited advice, but it is hard for me to stifle my urge to share my opinion on their financial communication issues.

I could see that being freed up from a spendthrift spouse would make it possible to ER when there was no way of doing it while in harness with them. Glad for those of you who escaped.
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:12 PM   #42
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This divorce thread is interesting, but also a little depressing. As someone young and married (almost 5 years now)... Is there anyone on here not divorced?
We have been together since I was 18 and so good so far (13 years into it). I am certain financial compatibility has helped the relationship, since none can appreciate the finer nuances of being a cheap SOB other than another cheapskate! From DW's perspective, I think she understands that the occasional trade off is worth it if we can be FI in our 30's and do whatever we want the rest of our lives (health permitting of course). A foreign concept to most, but it works for us.
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:23 PM   #43
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22 years together, attributable to our financial compatibility.
Married 42 years this September, and the same financial outlook (yeah, we're boring and don't fit the subject of the thread - but since others were chiming in)...
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:53 PM   #44
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Divorce was my personal catalyst to get hustling - I was single when I discovered ER was even an option - had not considered the fact that FIRE could be so close! Finding like-minded SO does not hurt matters either!
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:02 PM   #45
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Now I'm wondering how many here are happily married and keep their finances separate? Is there such a thing?

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Old 07-18-2011, 03:13 PM   #46
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Now I'm wondering how many here are happily married and keep their finances separate? Is there such a thing?

omni
Time for a poll, with all the variations listed ? (nope, I'm not doing it ...)
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:19 PM   #47
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Now I'm wondering how many here are happily married and keep their finances separate? Is there such a thing?

omni
We keep our finances separate. Both of us were married once at a young age and had been single for quite some time. When we started to get serious about being together and discussing marriage, I said I would only do so with a pre-nup. Our financial backgrounds were very different. I had been saving for ER since my late 20's and DW didn't really have any financial assets. In the 6 years we have been married, DW has saved a substantial amount for her ER - I'm very proud of her, although she still spends much more money than I do - going "shopping" and on personal care (guess that is a women thing).

Keeping the finances separate is very easy. We share utilities, food, travel, separate cars, etc. I pay for all house expenses so my DW could save toward her ER. We don't argue about finances. Both working until I recently ER'ed certainly made all of this possible.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:26 PM   #48
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I divorced my husband of 15 years in 1994. I was 42 and he was 37 yrs old. He and his brother owned a wholesale food distributing business in Philadelphia that was previously owned by their father. They had maybe 10 employees...butchers, delivery drivers, etc. My husband worked the "inside" of the business doing all the office stuff. My BIL did all the sales and marketing.

One night...late....after 11PM....my mother-in-law came to our house and said that she needed to tell me what was going on. Apparently, three months prior, the IRS had arrived at the business, padlocked the door, and took my husband away in handcuffs. He had been initially charged with tax fraud, but that was lowered to tax evasion. I knew nothing....I didn't even recall him coming home particularly late the day this happened. His family knew that he had not told me what was going on. For at least three months he came and went "to work" as if nothing was going on. The following day, my husband disappeared. No one knew where he was, and we all believed that he may have committed suicide.

Actually, he was busy negotiating with the IRS. He had come up with a large enough sum to get them to agree to payment arrangements. I had no idea that at least some of the money had come from all of our personal accounts, including investments that he forged my name on to cash out. By the time I realized what had happened, everything was gone except the house and remaining mortgage. He never came home, so I divorced him a year later and started over.

Lucky me....since all of our tax returns had been joint, and he had not even paid the FICA for his own or employee's pay, the IRS came after me as well. I was required to re-file married but separate for the previous seven years, and pay all of my taxes owed plus penalties. (We had gotten refunds for most of those years) This process took about 3 years to get through.

I am now blessed with a wonderful husband of almost four years. Lesson learned for me is that you never really know anyone...even if you think you do.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:32 PM   #49
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Now I'm wondering how many here are happily married and keep their finances separate? Is there such a thing?

omni
Yes...there is. Probably on a case by case basis but it is more than possible. In fact in my view, in some situations it works better for both parties.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:35 PM   #50
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Silver, that is absolutely awful, and must have been terrifying at the time. It's amazing that you were able to trust anyone else enough to marry him. But I am glad all is well now.

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I
Actually, he was busy negotiating with the IRS. He had come up with a large enough sum to get them to agree to payment arrangements. I had no idea that at least some of the money had come from all of our personal accounts, including investments that he forged my name on to cash out. By the time I realized what had happened, everything was gone except the house and remaining mortgage. ... the IRS came after me as well.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:37 PM   #51
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Now I'm wondering how many here are happily married and keep their finances separate? Is there such a thing?

omni
We kept our finances separate while we were living together but as soon as we married we combined everything. (0+0 = 0)
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:48 PM   #52
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We kept our finances separate while we were living together but as soon as we married we combined everything. (0+0 = 0)
Yeah, because we married young, we had the 0+0 plan as well. I think it is way more common (and a good idea) to keep them separate when you marry later in life after accumulating assets. If anything every happened to DH, I'd be very unlikely to commingle assets with a second husband.

Silver, that is truly terrifying. I am so glad that you came out on the other side of it whole, in the end. You just never know.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:57 PM   #53
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Lucky me....since all of our tax returns had been joint, and he had not even paid the FICA for his own or employee's pay, the IRS came after me as well. I was required to re-file marrielus penalties. (We had gotten refunds for most of those years) This process took about 3 years to get through.

I am now blessed with a wonderful husband of almost four years. Lesson learned for me is that you never really know anyone...even if you think you do.
Silver...I'm glad you got thru this. Wish your accountant had invoked the innocent spouse rule. If he or she had perhaps it could have eliminated all the tax re-filings. So glad it is behind you!
You are right though....you never really know what anyone...especially someone who is desperate is going to do.
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Old 07-18-2011, 04:34 PM   #54
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Silver, that is absolutely awful, and must have been terrifying at the time. It's amazing that you were able to trust anyone else enough to marry him. But I am glad all is well now.

Amethyst
+1 !!!!

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Old 07-18-2011, 04:51 PM   #55
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I appreciate the comments about people who marry later in life and keep their finances separate.

Lots of good reasons. A few come to mind.

They more than likely have differing net worths and possibly remaining outstanding individual obligations from a divorce (or 2 or 3 ).

And as we've already heard, some people's spouses do take advantage of them, once there are assets to be had.

Also, adult children from previous marriages often fear that they'll be cut out of any inheritance they feel are due them, after their parent remarries (as the new couple may either have children together or the couple may decide to spend it all or, especially if the new spouse out-lives the parent, given to any prior children of the new spouse).

At the same time, it seems sort of unromantic to enter a relationship with a pre-nup, plans to keep separate finances, and the like. It almost seems like setting the stage to make it easy to split up.

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Old 07-18-2011, 05:37 PM   #56
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I appreciate the comments about people who marry later in life and keep their finances separate.

Lots of good reasons. A few come to mind.

They more than likely have differing net worths and possibly remaining outstanding individual obligations from a divorce (or 2 or 3 ).

And as we've already heard, some people's spouses do take advantage of them, once there are assets to be had.

Also, adult children from previous marriages often fear that they'll be cut out of any inheritance they feel are due them, after their parent remarries (as the new couple may either have children together or the couple may decide to spend it all or, especially if the new spouse out-lives the parent, given to any prior children of the new spouse).

At the same time, it seems sort of unromantic to enter a relationship with a pre-nup, plans to keep separate finances, and the like. It almost seems like setting the stage to make it easy to split up.

omni
And let us not forget outstanding debt, which a spouse-to-be may or may not disclose before the marriage. I have a close female friend who got caught in that web. She is still married, but his "carried along" debts had a tremendous negative impact on their finances and quite frankly, seriously undermined their married relationship. It all w*rked out, but for a while there she was ready to split up.

I mentally wrestled with the pre-nup concept when I was formerly engaged (ex-dh2b), and definitely keep it forefront in my mind when Mr B and I loosely discuss marriage down the road. He has grown children. I have assured him that I neither need nor want anything he wants to leave to his children, and would willingly sign any pre-nup stating such. It's no big deal to me. I have my own benefits and portfolio.

In a perfect world, the legal and financial ramifications of re-marriage would not interfere with the romantic ideal of entering into matrimony.
But I am a realist, and no matter what impact it has psychologically, a pre-nup is a solid requirement for me to say "I do".
My attorney has thoroughly and repeatedly advised me on the need for a pre-nup. Who am I to argue with the law?
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:56 PM   #57
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I'm not married and not divorced, but find that one of the most important money knowledge gained from this forum is the importance of someone with a similar financial philosophy. I've seen in others the stress brought about with people of different philosophies. One wants to LBYM, while another thinks money in the bank is money wasted. One wants to avoid racking up huge credit card debt while another sees that as a rite of passage. One can't earn/save money as fast as the other spends it.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:22 PM   #58
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Now I'm wondering how many here are happily married and keep their finances separate? Is there such a thing?
Spouse and I have kept separate checking accounts for over 30 years just to make sure we kept track of our pay and travel claims. We'd frequently be spending money in different time zones so separate checking accounts really cut down on the "oops". Now we just shovel our excess into the same money market account for the higher balance & interest rate.

We started combining our investment accounts when we got married-- our IRAs stayed separate, of course, but we opened a joint (taxable) account at Fidelity. We invested in other mutual funds before our marriage but those eventually got cashed out and ended up at Fidelity. I remember the good ol' days of sitting side by side writing checks to the mutual funds every two weeks.

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At the same time, it seems sort of unromantic to enter a relationship with a pre-nup, plans to keep separate finances, and the like. It almost seems like setting the stage to make it easy to split up.
Our daughter's been aware of the horrible finances of her friends (even though she's made some whopper mistakes of her own) and she feels very protective of her IRA & taxable account. She's told us (with all the serious intent of an 18-year-old) that she's only getting married with a prenup.

We've hastened to reassure her that she won't have to worry about inheriting any assets...
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:47 PM   #59
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This divorce thread is interesting, but also a little depressing. As someone young and married (almost 5 years now)... Is there anyone on here not divorced?
Coming up on 17 years of being very happily married. DH and I share the same financial value system and have built our networth together from the ground up.

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Been seeing things a bit too close up with a couple that are friends of ours. They keep all funds separate and they just seem to be on totally different pages for spending. I am trying very hard not to give unsolicited advice, but it is hard for me to stifle my urge to share my opinion on their financial communication issues.
We actually are experiencing the same thing right now. The wife spends and spends and spends. The husband sees how DH and I manage things and so wants his wife to get on board. He talks to me about it and has asked for advice for how to get her to stop her excessive spending. He says she goes through $10K a MONTH like it's nothing! Gah! Says he tried to put just $8K in the account every month, but she will overdraw it, and they end up with bank fees. I'm really worried about their marriage with such financial issues. Touchy subject indeed.
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:53 AM   #60
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15 years marriage.
We started from 0+0. Built everything together. Even supported his family (still doing), his brother's education + marriage expenses. It has always been We. I never even knew ATM pin no. . I do big picture planning, right now all non-retirement (majority of) assets are in my name (tax reasons). He says if he looses me money won't mean anything anyway and kids would be the first thing I would take from the marriage if it comes to that.
Both r cheap sobs (Uncle Mic ;-)
Right now I'm stay-at-home but pushing harder for his ER, making cheaper choices which even irk him many times .. he complains sometimes "I want to live" and I tell him "U got to Retire ASAP".

I guess may be due to being Indian or old fashioned people, we r stuck for eternity ... not that I'm complaining.

I think finding a like-minded compatible spouse is such a blessing definitely huge contributor to ER or any other goal you may have in life.

-DesiGirl
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