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Old 06-18-2014, 06:00 PM   #21
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No offense, but I hate SMART goals. Why? Our marketing director at THE FIRM shoves them down our throats.
Mo Money - have you given any kind of thought to the possibility that the OP might actually be your boss?
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:11 PM   #22
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I'm a huge fan of Dangerously Unattainable, Monstrously Big goals myself.

Great big audacious goals that make our friends think we're crazy, and our enemies think ... well, we're crazy. They may not be attainable, but, damn, it's fun trying, and I can learn more from trying and failing than planning little baby steps out and schootching along.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:17 PM   #23
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Man, this is a tough crowd! Just the way I like it...
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:31 PM   #24
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You're still w*rking, aren't you?
Actually no - not as of last week.

That doesn't mean I don't still have a large array of personal and financial goals though!
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:33 PM   #25
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What does SMART stand for? Oh yeah, STUPID.

What organization is so stupid they give us an acronym than means everything and nothing, and keeps us distracted from what is really going on with the overall business direction?

Sheep Mimicking And Repeating Trends?

It has been a really warm afternoon. LOL!
Ok - I get it, you guys HATE when corporations use things like goals to drive behaviors.

I should have been more specific - 99% of what we use SMART goals for are personal and financial goals, NOT for work. Goals like having $5M in investment accounts by 12/31/2015 or some such.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:44 PM   #26
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So to clarify my username, which I might have to change to "retired at 39" or something is that I was an enterprise account manager for 15 years for F1000 customers in high end IT. It was a soul-sucking job that paid well and was one part of a multifaceted approach to FIRE.

We achieved FIRE at 39 (wife is 35) not through one big hit (stock options or whatever) and not relying on a pension but by doing the right things every single day with singular focus over the last 18 years. Keeping expenses tight, investing in different asset classes, saving our asses off and associating with high net worth, high achievers. A huge part of that is having goals that people I care about hold me to account.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:52 PM   #27
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wqo3wt76: A perfectly legit viewpoint. But I won't buy it.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:07 PM   #28
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Mo Money - have you given any kind of thought to the possibility that the OP might actually be your boss?
Actually, she's just the Marketing Director. In truth, she's the most well-meaning person in the world. She's half my age. She's never sold a thing, but she does try - hard - to help us. But she's just doing what all the other firm marketing directors are doing.

BTW, I am actually a huge fan of goals. I just think that people have to decide to motivate themselves, and can't be told to pigeon-hole that motivation by using a rigid formula. Me? I scrawl my goals on a beat-up index card in my pocket. And Kudos to wqo3wt76 if SMART goals work for him. He's welcome to use them effectively (and it sounds like he has!)
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:15 PM   #29
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I always liked SMART goals . . . at w*rk. Now that I am ER'd my life isn't that complicated and I'm plenty motivated to achieve what I want to achieve.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:40 PM   #30
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I have always HATED the so-called SMART goals and cannot imagine using them if someone doesn't make me. I do like having goals and plans. But specifically manipulating the details to fit a made-up HR acronym is both a waste of time and serious detraction from actually accomplishing the goals. Spending my career on the producing side of the company where I need to actually make something for the company to thrive, I resent some self appointed HR person declaring the "right" way to set goals and making a lot of make-work activity suddenly REQUIRED in order to have goals in the proper format on the proper forms. Not only are they themselves a waste of time and salary, but they make others in the company waste time as well to satisfy their absolutely pointless mandates. Count me as very actively opposed to using SMART goals for anything. Ever.

I do like goals and plans. But not the SMART system as it has been forced on me at every company I've ever worked for.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:13 PM   #31
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Ok - I get it, you guys HATE when corporations use things like goals to drive behaviors.

I should have been more specific - 99% of what we use SMART goals for are personal and financial goals, NOT for work. Goals like having $5M in investment accounts by 12/31/2015 or some such.
Most of us went to great lengths for a number of years to escape this kind of bullcrap in the workplace. I quite frankly would rather cut off a toe (or better yet, your toe) than let this garbage into my real life. If it works for you, great. But you must not have read many posts here if you thought we would all start singing the company fight song.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:53 PM   #32
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Ok - I get it, you guys HATE when corporations use things like goals to drive behaviors.
Well, if I ever saw a company actually use goals to drive behaviors, then maybe I would have a different opinion. I've never seen any SMART goals that came anywhere close to that. About the best I've seen is incentivizing some peripheral task that isn't essential to producing products. Mostly the goals set up conflicts between what actually needed to happen to deliver on time and on budget, and what needed to be done to score the maximum points in the goal system.

Maybe SMART goals can work in a repetitive factory environment, like they were originally designed for. Or in a sales environment where there are quotas. In an engineering environment they were a disaster.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:01 PM   #33
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...

I should have been more specific - 99% of what we use SMART goals for are personal and financial goals, NOT for work. Goals like having $5M in investment accounts by 12/31/2015 or some such.
OK, I follow you now. The other responses were just good-natured (well, mostly ), Pavlovian responses to our former lives and workplace goal setting.

I think this response sums it up pretty well for me too:

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I always liked SMART goals . . . at w*rk. Now that I am ER'd my life isn't that complicated and I'm plenty motivated to achieve what I want to achieve.
If I do have a time sensitive project that I want to get done sure, I'll fall back on the old goal setting/monitoring methods, even spreadsheets to track it all. But I guess that's all second nature to me now, I don't think I need any acronyms to get it done.

But if it helps you, that's great.

Though I really no longer have financial goals like that. I'm not accumulating anymore. I just watch spending and stay diversified.

-ERD50
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:46 AM   #34
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Hummm - that's a term we use at work and that is to be avoided.

Here are the goals that I have live by since I was 12! They have served me well.

> Save 50% of your income - Live on the rest
> Invest in Index's and not individual stocks or bonds
> Take educated risks on things that you understand - say 5% of your portfolio in an Index'ed REIT
> Invest every bonus, extra cash, windfalls
> invest most aggressively in your retirement accounts and less in non retirement
> Re-invest income in retirement accounts and to a sweep account in non-retirement ones
> Re-allocate in 5% increments - when something is 5% over allocated - reallocate.
> When close to retirement work towards 5 years of living expenses in laddered CD's - massive stress reducer
> Debt is a bad deal - avoid it - cash and flexibility are king
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:55 AM   #35
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Hummm - that's a term we use at work and that is to be avoided.

Here are the goals that I have live by since I was 12! They have served me well.

> Save 50% of your income - Live on the rest
> Invest in Index's and not individual stocks or bonds
> Take educated risks on things that you understand - say 5% of your portfolio in an Index'ed REIT
> Invest every bonus, extra cash, windfalls
> invest most aggressively in your retirement accounts and less in non retirement
> Re-invest income in retirement accounts and to a sweep account in non-retirement ones
> Re-allocate in 5% increments - when something is 5% over allocated - reallocate.
> When close to retirement work towards 5 years of living expenses in laddered CD's - massive stress reducer
> Debt is a bad deal - avoid it - cash and flexibility are king
Nice - thanks for sharing. What I was hoping to hear from others but we somehow got tangled up in how much everyone hated goals
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:01 PM   #36
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... but we somehow got tangled up in how much everyone hated goals
I think you got it wrong. We don't hate goals - none of us would be here if we didn't have them.

We just hate corporate acronyms like SMART.

But.. power to you - whatever sails your boat.
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:06 PM   #37
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Well, when DH & me decided that we want to save the amount of x so that we are able to ER in the year 2013 we thought we were really smart.
And I think our goal was also specific, measurable, assignable, realistic and time related.
I like goals that I set for myself.
I hated goals that were imposed on me by my bosses with a lot of pomp and circumstance.
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:09 PM   #38
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Ok - fine, of course I wish I hadn't used the acronym but whatever.

What I would like to hear more about, since I'm new at this whole FIRE thing and all, is once you have achieved FIRE, what goals (let's stick to finances) if any are important & new for the later part of life?

And I agree - goals someone else sets for you are useless.
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:14 PM   #39
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Goals are sometimes too limiting - try this:
Scott Adams Blog: Goals vs. Systems 11/18/2013
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:17 PM   #40
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Nothing personal. It's just what unites us here is "not worK' and this was sounding like "back to work"

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What I would like to hear more about, since I'm new at this whole FIRE thing and all, is once you have achieved FIRE, what goals (let's stick to finances) if any are important & new for the later part of life?
Well, outliving my portfolio is my only real financial goal. Everything else financial is secondary.
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