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Old 06-19-2014, 12:24 PM   #41
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We had a number of goals based on timeframe....

-never incur consumer debt
-live on one income so spouse could stay at home
-pay off mortgage
-have children complete post secondary with no debt/student loans
-have enough resources to retire even if megacorp db plan did not payout as predicted (fortunately it has paid out)
-have a healthy lifestyle so that we can enjoy our retirement to the fullest
-have enough resources to retire early and travel
-have enough resources to travel where we want and when we want
-have enough resources to establish edu plan for grandchild
-have enough resources to establish trust fund for both children


As one goal is reached, another pops up. We have been fortunate enough to achieve all but the last one so far.
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:30 PM   #42
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I'm a huge fan of using goals to shape my future and drive daily activities towards short, medium & long term goals of import.

One thing that has worked extremely well has been sharing those goals with a close friend and reviewing them often. We discuss goals on a weekly basis and do a big review at the end of the year to gauge progress.
...

We cover three main areas - personal, financial & career.
...
Our implementation is using OneNote from MSFT, allowing instant, anywhere access to all the goals for the week, month, year & 5-year for regular review and editing, as well as accountability.
Hmm, the time it would take for DH and me to discuss and come up with weekly, monthly, yearly, and five-year goals would way exceed the time it would take to achieve them (not to mention the measuring of the achievement and then the post-achievement assessment of same, right?).

But what I am really curious about is that you share these goals with a close friend (using OneNote?), discuss them on a weekly basis, and then have a big review at the end of the year.

At least you will know what you will do with your free time in retirement.

But I also think we all have different goals both before and after retirement. How do you expect yours to change, wqo3wt76?
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:35 PM   #43
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Ok - fine, of course I wish I hadn't used the acronym but whatever.

What I would like to hear more about, since I'm new at this whole FIRE thing and all, is once you have achieved FIRE, what goals (let's stick to finances) if any are important & new for the later part of life?

And I agree - goals someone else sets for you are useless.
Easy - don't **** up.

Non-financial goals are far more important at this point in my life.
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:52 PM   #44
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:28 PM   #45
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OK,
I fess up my comments about smart goals were a past life coming back to haunt me.

Yes, I have informal goals that I use. Smart actually makes sense, I was doing it long before it became a management buzzword, just a natural process to me. This is actually a great thread, never gave enough thought to the non-monetary goals. I will spend some time reviewing those and create a plan.
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:46 PM   #46
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They're just goals. SMART is just another one of those obnoxious phrases from the business buzz word junk yard. Much like the latest word: "transparent". Anyone who says they're "transparent" I immediately distrust. No one can ever be transparent in business. Not ever. If they say they are, you know they're lying or hiding something.
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:29 PM   #47
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Am guessing that the precursor for SMART was Management by Objectives.
Ah yes... remember it well. 1978. Most of my co-workers dashed off a one page recap of their current work assignments and the interactions with others.
I turned in a 7 page list of my work links and interactions between departments. Indirectly, this little exercise turned into a promotion to the home office, and my previous position being split into two job descriptions, for which two people were hired... each at my old salary.
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:42 PM   #48
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They're just goals. SMART is just another one of those obnoxious phrases from the business buzz word junk yard. Much like the latest word: "transparent". Anyone who says they're "transparent" I immediately distrust. No one can ever be transparent in business. Not ever. If they say they are, you know they're lying or hiding something.
Transparent is new? I thought I made it it go out of style in the early 80s. A major upgrade to the online systems; management sent out notice to all customers(big banks, financial institutions etc.) the upgrade would be 'transparent' to them. Well there was a big issue, about 72 hours later service was restored for several thousand users.

My manager used to laugh about transparent, 'so is an airplane propeller at full throttle'.
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Old 06-19-2014, 05:21 PM   #49
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Not a true goal setter anymore either but I will toss a few financial goals in which I have. 1) Save 25% of take home pension check and put no more than 1/3 of it in stock market. 2) annually shop for better deals on home, health and auto insurance 3) annually threaten to leave Direct TV and ATT internet to reduce monthly bill. 4) keep looking at new cars for entertainment, but resist buying and keep the old one running until it won't, to save on property taxes, insurance, and depletion of my net worth. Nothing here exactly that is exciting.


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Old 06-19-2014, 05:45 PM   #50
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OK,
I fess up my comments about smart goals were a past life coming back to haunt me.

Yes, I have informal goals that I use. Smart actually makes sense, I was doing it long before it became a management buzzword, just a natural process to me. This is actually a great thread, never gave enough thought to the non-monetary goals. I will spend some time reviewing those and create a plan.
Glad you like the discussion, though I'm shocked at the level of negativity from others. Seems rather toxic.

Let's ignore the company, management & other negativity that seem to turn people off.

You tell your best friend that you are going to run 10 miles on Wednesday, at an 8:00 pace. Now you are accountable. On sunday night when your friend says, hey, I thought this was important to you - what the hell happened? Accountability is extremely powerful.

Now if your friends are fat, lazy & drunk this might not be a good example...
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:39 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by wqo3wt76 View Post
Glad you like the discussion, though I'm shocked at the level of negativity from others. Seems rather toxic.

Let's ignore the company, management & other negativity that seem to turn people off.

You tell your best friend that you are going to run 10 miles on Wednesday, at an 8:00 pace. Now you are accountable. On sunday night when your friend says, hey, I thought this was important to you - what the hell happened? Accountability is extremely powerful.

Now if your friends are fat, lazy & drunk this might not be a good example...
You are also spewing this into a community dominated by introverts. I think it is a shame you are not internally motivated enough to accomplish your goals without someone checking up on you.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:49 PM   #52
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Glad you like the discussion, though I'm shocked at the level of negativity from others. Seems rather toxic.
...
Now if your friends are fat, lazy & drunk this might not be a good example...
Dean Wormer, is that you?


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Old 06-19-2014, 08:15 PM   #53
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One thing that has worked extremely well has been sharing those goals with a close friend and reviewing them often. We discuss goals on a weekly basis and do a big review at the end of the year to gauge progress.

We cover three main areas - personal, financial & career.
If by "close friend" you mean spouse, then this kind of talk (without the SMART gobledegook) makes sense. If you mean a personal friend or someone I know through work, then I cannot imagine this turning out well. Even broaching the general subjects of ER, FI or even sensible investing have generally gone poorly.
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:24 PM   #54
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Goals are sometimes too limiting - try this:
Scott Adams Blog: Goals vs. Systems 11/18/2013
That was great, very insightful.

When I started out, there was lots of push to have a 5-year career plan. It seemed my job changed almost completely every 3 years, so I did think that could be limiting (plus, I'm lazy in that way). So I tend to agree with his view, try different things, keep learning, look for opportunities. But there is a time/place for specific goals.


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Old 06-19-2014, 09:23 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by wqo3wt76 View Post
Glad you like the discussion, though I'm shocked at the level of negativity from others. Seems rather toxic.

Let's ignore the company, management & other negativity that seem to turn people off.

You tell your best friend that you are going to run 10 miles on Wednesday, at an 8:00 pace. Now you are accountable. On sunday night when your friend says, hey, I thought this was important to you - what the hell happened? Accountability is extremely powerful.

Now if your friends are fat, lazy & drunk this might not be a good example...
The idea that I would be accountable to my best friend - or any friend - for meeting my personal or financial goals is unfathomable to me. The idea that they would be accountable to me for the same is also laughable. Frankly I have no interest in expending energy keeping tabs on whether my friends are meeting their goals - I'm too busy working on my own, and I am not their parent.

My motivation for achieving my goals comes from within, and I have nothing to prove to anyone. Sink or swim, it's up to me, and I am the one who will live with the consequences of my decisions.

As you spend more time here I think you will realize that the vast majority of folks here are inner-directed, and are not in the business of score-keeping, or attempting to measure up to their friends' expectations on the path to reaching their goals.

My friends are not fat, lazy, or drunk and I am STILL not accountable for reporting to them about my personal progress.
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:50 AM   #56
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I guess I'll stick my introverted hand up and admit that I do something like this with a friend via email, only we touch base every day and don't really refer to it as SMART goals, more our current projects. Basically we send each other a list in the morning of what we would like to have done that day on our personal projects and update our status at the end of the day. It's going to be a nice day today, so mine will probably just be "X hour hike". Also need to review some travel brochures and maps for the upcoming 2 month RV trip, do some writing and scope out a plan for my portfolio cash. And the dreaded cleaning list (cleaning does not come naturally to me). She's working on her next book and editing another book for someone else so usually has something in her email to do with that. Yesterday was completely focused on watching both the market and Breaking Bad. I over-achieved on that particular project.

We don't do it to be "accountable" to someone else - it's more encouraging each other - but she is good at reminding me to not be such a perfectionist and take every little progress towards stuff like cleaning or anything else really that I avoid doing as a win. I hope I do the same for her.

We've done this together off and on over the last 5 years that I've known her. Used to use idonethis.com which is handy because they send you an email every day or however often you want and keep a record of what you logged in for that day. Maybe it works for us because personally, I am not working right now because I have my own stuff to do, not so much to get away from somewhere - except that their stuff wasn't interesting to me anymore. I'm also not married (but she is). Maybe that makes a difference.

It's not much different than the "What did you do today" thread on here or the Wednesday weigh-in thread or the thread that used to be here for decluttering. Just sharing with people that care about you and want to see you happy.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:29 AM   #57
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My one goal in retirement is to just...live. To be happy.

I'm so sick of being a"human doing". I just want to be a human being. I'm already tired of people asking me what I'm going to do when I retire. I'm going to live. Really live. Isn't that enough?
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:32 AM   #58
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My one goal in retirement is to just...live. To be happy.

I'm so sick of being a"human doing". I just want to be a human being. I'm already tired of people asking me what I'm going to do when I retire. I'm going to live. Really live. Isn't that enough?
Great post!
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:51 AM   #59
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I would rather spend an hour with a fat, lazy, drunk friend than spend a minute with a friend who was intent on coaching, "improving", and cajoling me.

DW and I work together on mutual goals, but I'm pretty much self-managed other than that. I've been that way since I moved out of my parents' house 35 years ago. I sure wouldn't invite somebody to track my progress in meeting my own priorities/goals, and I wouldn't do it for/to anyone else.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:43 AM   #60
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Also meant to say that I'm very fortunate that my friend is an ENFP and can see things that I can't when my INTJ-blinders are on in full gear - and I help talk her down sometimes. We make a great team.
INTJ strengths and weaknesses | 16 Personality Types

I think it's great that one of the beauties of FI/ER is that everyone can walk their own path vs. having to conform to an organization's (or popular opinion) way of doing things.
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