Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-08-2008, 10:48 AM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,965
Seems to me adopting an LBYM approach to life is by definition at least in part being controlled by money. Money does not override my other priorities, but it does limit what I will spend it on, and I don't regret it at all. We're comfortable with a few relatively expensive vices, but don't miss other "things" at all...
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-08-2008, 12:24 PM   #22
Full time employment: Posting here.
CitricAcid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
Seems to me adopting an LBYM approach to life is by definition at least in part being controlled by money. Money does not override my other priorities, but it does limit what I will spend it on, and I don't regret it at all. We're comfortable with a few relatively expensive vices, but don't miss other "things" at all...
Yes, but spending as much as you can puts you tooth and nail to every paycheck where money will certainly control you as the debt piles up and you are working just to pay off what you previously bought. This seems like an argument that whether you LBYM or not, you are still "controlled" by money. I just feel that LBYM is a way to live well and free yourself from money issues (not that they don't exist, just they'll be lessened)
__________________

__________________
CitricAcid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 12:26 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,020
Money stopped controlling me once I realized that, while money could buy me love, doing so was illegal in this fine state.
__________________
Marquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 12:36 PM   #24
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquette View Post
Money stopped controlling me once I realized that, while money could buy me love, doing so was illegal in this fine state.
Buying love, no problemo. Renting love -- illegal.
__________________
CaseInPoint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 03:14 PM   #25
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 191
Do I let the money control me? I would say “no”. However, I do have healthy respect for what it can do… I am fully aware of what it can do for me, and what it feels like when you have absolutely none.

I was on my own at 17 with no one to fall back on. It was then I discovered self-reliance and realized that my savings is the only safety net I will ever have. So, yes, consciously or subconsciously money aspect creeps into just about any decision I make. Don’t get me wrong, it has no power when it comes to well being of my family & friends, it does not have veto rights on things important to me and it does not run my life, but… it is always a consideration.
__________________
lucija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 09:07 PM   #26
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tucson
Posts: 118
Lazy,

I've lost buckets of money in the last couple weeks. Made buckets in the past. What's happening now just sort of feels like the natural rhythm of things. Not minimizing your feelings, but I've learned that all my emotions are transitory. Whatever I'm feeling at any particular moment, I can be certain that it will pass.

Hey Jessica08, what's with the link at the end of your post? I see the words "Need an advisor?" and I think no thanks, and wonder about your intentions. Can you explain yourself?

Tom
__________________
tomintucson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 06:10 AM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
lazygood4nothinbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
lots of good response. thanx. gives me a lot to consider. want to respond more but this is what i've got so far:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notmuchlonger View Post
No doesn't control me. Im miserable and mean no matter how much is in my bank account

interesting solution to the emotional highs and lows of investing and such safe foundation to never float on air, having so much less room to fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuppaJoe View Post
Same person?

you know him too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer View Post
You might feel insecure because for the first time in your life you have no Plan B to fall back onto. When you worked and you needed money, there was always the next paycheck. When your parents were alive (I assume they passed since you inherited their money), you knew you could count on them to help you financially if you ever needed it. Now that those safeties are gone, you start to realize that the money in your portfolio is IT.

plan b is my plan a as i was considering a vagabond life even when i thought i had more. it is still so silly how i let this affect me. it isn’t that i need more money to spend; maybe I just need more money to not spend. it’s not as if i’m poor. but maybe if i am to feel secure in early retirement, i guess all i need do is raise my parents from the dead and get a job. easy enough. now if only i believed in miracles, i’d look for work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg52 View Post
Yes.

actually dawg, reading some of your recent posts, the posts of some others and watching my own thoughts got me to wonder about all this. perhaps it should be like a good game of golf, where you keep yourself “in the zone” so that not even the wind nor conditions of the green affect your shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina View Post
The buck now stops with us, and we are "the grown ups"
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina View Post
You have both more responsibility and yet paradoxically less agency….BUT I did not look at the market once today and am not going to tomorrow.. la la la la la
so not only do i have to get old--which i’ve already determined sucks--but i have to mature too? this really sucks. lalaland here i come :: pours self a stiff drink:::

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
... but it does not when it comes to other people as you have mentioned... but then again, I have never met many rich people and lived off their money... maybe I would be carefree if that were to happen...


it’s not as if i went looking for it. just happened to be my life. friends and friends of friends & friends of theirs. even a friend i’d buy pot from had his own charter fleet. welcome to fort lauderdale. should i have offered my credit card to fill their 4,000-gallon fuel tanks and help pay for crew? i’m pretty sure all i was supposed to do was say thank you for the lovely time and invite them to a movie the next time i was catching a cheap matinee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusitan View Post
No way - I take money, smack it upside the head and show it how pathetic it really is, and then tell it to go to the kitchen and make me a sandwich!


there ya go. treat money with machismo. i assume you keep some chump change around to taste that sandwich before you eat it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbamI View Post
…I remember hearing my mom and dad talk about it, and I heard my mom cry. It was then that I had a different outlook on money and what it could do… I have moved several times leaving family members…for a job that was paying more money...Now, I'm tracking my assets and second guess myself…S
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbamI View Post
o yes, money does control me to an extent...or should I say the lack of?
my mom never had to cry over not having money and we were always overinsured. i stayed near family & friends instead of taking better jobs elsewhere and yet now “i’m tracking my assets and (i also) second guess myself”. how interesting that opposing paths can lead to the very same destination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
I'd have to say money has a slight control on me . When the market is up I'm much more generous then when it is down .

when i look back maybe i was more affected by money than i now assume. because in reading your post i remembered how my tipping during my working years became less generous along with my reduced raises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseInPoint View Post
…this is exactly the reason that I always recommend being conservative in declaring that one's ready to RE…if you're concerned about money and are capable of working, why not just get a job Wait, that doesn't sound right...

oh i have no issues with working. my only problem with that is the one i’ve always had: i have no idea what i want to be when i grow up. i have been looking for a job though, not that i need it. just something to hold my interest & cover some costs while i wait for these houses to sell. think i found the very utmost perfect after-career job for the early retiree: teaching financial independence to young adults suffering substance abuse & other behavioral. hardly pays but if i can sleep in late, don’t have to shave and can work in shorts & a t-shirt this might sound just right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiny View Post
"Control" is a really strong word, so no, I don't let money control me. But, it does affect my moods more than I care for...D
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiny View Post
H is still working, I manage our finances - that is my current job. I feel like I am doing a terrible job and should be fired!
i consider how money influences my mood to be more of a control issue than i do how money might influence a career choice or spending decision. one is a matter of outside utility but the other is a matter of inner substance. i have less of a problem mixing it up on the outside than i do allowing money to currupt me from within.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
"Money is the sixth sense that allows you to enjoy the other five"

in my 70s & 80s maybe, but i’m hoping i won’t have to pay for it before then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
When the market is up, I am cheerful...But
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
when the market is down, really I am not that unhappy. I know it will be back up again eventually, and I know that I haven't lost everything. So, I don't dwell on what it is today, but instead dream of what it will become in the future.
beautiful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogersteciak View Post
I now believe in the world of abundance (i.e., there is more than enough to go around for everyone) rather than the world of scarcity (i.e., "I better get my crumbs before someone else does")...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogersteciak View Post
I see someone now with a lot of toys, I no longer feel jealous of them; instead, I presume they are relatively poor and in debt up to their ears for purposes of conspicuous consumption.
while i appreciate that you used your past experience to learn to better your way through the world, sorry, but i gotta say that abundance outlook scares me. even a world of scarcity doesn’t demand scrounging for crumbs when bread can be shared. never mind that it simply is not true that there is more than enough to go around for everyone. try sharing the american dream with the rest of the world and see what happens.

my parents worked hard, lived well and left legacy ta’boot. is a 40-foot yacht docked behind your waterfront home conspicuous consumption when you live below your means?

on the one hand you are jealous of what toys someone else enjoys. so money controls you on the way in. then you have to think that they are in debt just to control your jealousy and so money also controls you on the way out. this illustrates clearly what it is like to be controlled by money.
__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
lazygood4nothinbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 09:42 AM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
lazygood4nothinbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disappointed View Post
I think I get frustrated every time I came close to my goal and saw it slipped away. The failure to reach my financial goal cuased me to be unhappy. In this sense, yes, money controls my emotion. Thank god that I am still working and the steady pay checks have helped easing the pain a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disappointed View Post

…Without the goal of ER, I believe that I won't be as much influenced by money.

FIREdreamer said it best, when all the money that you have in your portfolio is IT, IT does affect your emotion. Every time I thought of ER the feeling of fear always came up - uncomfortable feeling of the realization that my portfolio is IT, I am still working on this issue.

Thanks for revealing how the Bear market affects your emotion during your ER. It is a good lesson for many of us who are inspired to ER. I am learning from your experience.
without the carrot there is no need for the stick.

having the opportunity through this forum to read of the experience of others, i wonder what life i might have had if only i let money control me more. what if i took the ol’man up on his offer to come back into the company which i pretty much handed over to my brother by not accepting it.

i actually did have a money goal earlier in life but i didn’t like it setting my priorities. yet what if i had become a lawyer or what if i joined the peace corp. each time i run the choices through my head, placing myself back into past situations as i knew them then, i wind up making the same decisions. the past is immutable.

i know money is going to control me some. if i see the portfolio diminish quickly i sure better let that control me so that i don’t wind up broke. i’m ok with being moved to take action, but i don’t like having just any portfolio toy with my emotions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Not controlled by it, but very much aware of how much is available and what it can do for us. I never had much interest in a 40 foot boat - too much maintenance!


sometimes i think maintenance was what the ol’man loved best. him and his engines. that guy had a tool for everything. one of the very sad parts of life was when he got so sick that he could no longer work on the boat. being able to fix things signified his independence. losing that ability was not the life he wanted. he always used to joke that he wanted to be set afire on his boat, but all mom would concede to was the dinghy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happy2bretired View Post
Now, after my husband died and I've retired...yes, money has began to control me a little more. I think of money a lot more these days. I don't have the secure feeling that I had before. I have no job (yeah), I have no parents, I have no husband - so there is no back up plan anymore. I am IT.


interesting how there can be less of a sense of security in a bank account than there might be in a good relationship. some of my most wonderful times in life were when i had very little money but i was in a great relationship. “all i need is the air that i breathe”. i’d rather be in the company of wealth than own that wealth. there’s too much responsibility to owning it. i just want to play all day. have i mentioned that growing up sucks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica08 View Post
Is being controlled by money necessarily a bad thing? When you are aware that you have limited funds you are more likely to make better financial decision.


in strictly utilitarian purpose, that would be you controlling money, not money controlling you. when you to let money control values, determine your vote, for instance, for a candidate who feathers your pocket while plucking your rights, that’s when you lose control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
Seems to me adopting an LBYM approach to life is by definition at least in part being controlled by money. Money does not override my other priorities, but it does limit what I will spend it on, and I don't regret it at all. We're comfortable with a few relatively expensive vices, but don't miss other "things" at all...

&
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitricAcid View Post
This seems like an argument that whether you LBYM or not, you are still "controlled" by money. I just feel that LBYM is a way to live well and free yourself from money issues (not that they don't exist, just they'll be lessened)


i think there is a difference between being controlled and being guided. lanes & signs guide traffic, signals & curbs control it. if i see a cliff drop off ahead, it does not control me but i know that if i do not turn off, i better learn to fly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucija View Post
Do I let the money control me? I would say “no”. However, I do have healthy respect for what it can do….


not unlike swimming in the ocean. don’t be afraid to swim but swim with a good attitude and an eye out to sea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomintucson View Post
What's happening now just sort of feels like the natural rhythm of things. Not minimizing your feelings, but I've learned that all my emotions are transitory. Whatever I'm feeling at any particular moment, I can be certain that it will pass.


minimize away because that sure is what i’m trying to do. i like thinking of this as a natural rhythm. also, i’ve so often found myself laughing even at funerals so i know perceptions and emotions can be independent of circumstance. your characterization of emotions as transitory is spot on. thanx. good input. i’m feeling much better now.
__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
lazygood4nothinbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 09:59 AM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 7,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum View Post

actually dawg, reading some of your recent posts, the posts of some others and watching my own thoughts got me to wonder about all this. perhaps it should be like a good game of golf, where you keep yourself “in the zone” so that not even the wind nor conditions of the green affect your shot.
I usually end up playing the 19th hole after a windy round of golf.
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Full time wuss.......
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 10:00 AM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum View Post
on the one hand you are jealous of what toys someone else enjoys. so money controls you on the way in. then you have to think that they are in debt just to control your jealousy and so money also controls you on the way out. this illustrates clearly what it is like to be controlled by money.
In that sense, everything I do has a financial component to it. Go back far enough in time and it would be measured in bear skins or ounces of gold. Today, it's measured in money. Because no one is self-sufficient, money serves as a medium of exchange for goods and services in the economy and has value as a result.
__________________
rogersteciak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 11:18 AM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
lazygood4nothinbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogersteciak View Post
When I see someone now with a lot of toys, I no longer feel jealous of them; instead, I presume they are relatively poor and in debt up to their ears for purposes of conspicuous consumption.
money is not always the medium but that's not the point anyway.

that guy has always been better looking than me and picks up all the chics he wants. they do anything for him and i've always been so jealous that i am not as good looking so that i can get the chics like he can.

then i discovered that his body is ridden inside with cancer and experiencing organ failure. this gorgeous guy who gets all the chics. and suddenly i don't feel so jealous that he has better looks than me.

the exchange is no longer monetary, instead it is vanity, but it still controls you, just like the money did. it is not just because money happened to be the medium of exchange. it is something else.

just when you ride a horse, the horse becomes the medium of travel, but if you let it control you, he just might run under a very low branch.
__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
lazygood4nothinbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 01:48 PM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum View Post
now that i’m not getting allowance, now that i’ve stopped working, now that i have inherited my parent’s money, i have never before been so insecure about it.
I share your feelings to the letter LGFNB. I worked from the age of 16 until RE at 58 without a break, including working my way through school. The last decade or so, I actually made pretty good money and became accustomed to it despite being a heavy saver wanting to RE and trying to make up for lost time.

Now RE'd for two years, it seems all sources of income, other than investment income, have finally dried up. I collected unemployment benefits and severance pay my first six months of RE since, technically, I was RIF'd at the end of my career. Then there were stock options and some other delayed compensation to collect. But those things are now over and I still have some time before SS and my modest non-cola'd pension start. So, investment income is it.

This has led to an uncomfortable fixation on market performance and a bit of a problem getting it off my mind. Is my AA correct? Will my retirement years wind up being a repeat of the stagflation years of the 70's and 80's? Will Megacorp contine to supplement my retiree health care benefits? Will Megacorp still be there when it's time to collect my pension (they're really struggling!)? And on and on.....

It's hard to get these issues off my mind and not have them be a consideration in daily activities and plans. I'm enjoying RE, no mistake about that, but variation in investment returns is definitely a negative I'm sometimes preocupied with.

Maybe I'm fooling myself thinking my 60/40 AA is suitable for my risk tolerance and should be a 40/60 guy?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 02:18 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
OAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,598
Of course, Money is the route to everything else. You may not be able to buy Love but money can be the down payment!

All joking aside, it is important, but it does not control me. Maybe because I never had as much as I have now. Being a saver for 40 or so of my 68 years presents a nicer concern now.
__________________
Vietnam Veteran, CW4 USA, Retired 1979
OAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 02:35 PM   #34
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum View Post
the exchange is no longer monetary, instead it is vanity, but it still controls you, just like the money did. it is not just because money happened to be the medium of exchange. it is something else.
What is at work are human emotions. We all have them. The trick is to get them under control and life's experiences tend to work wonders when people treat their life's experiences as priceless learning opportunities. When I was younger and didn't know the rules of money, I often felt jealous of people who had more "stuff" than I did because I equated it with wealth and my lack of self-worth.

Now I realize what is often behind appearances (which are high levels of debt, although not always). When I travel through a wealthy neighborhood that is on the waterfront and see yachts anchored in peoples' backyards, I no longer feel jealous. Instead I feel inspired (i.e., "if they can do it, so can I if I should decide to do it"). I now know how to turn money into more money over time, which is something I didn't understand very well when I was younger. I'm assuming here that "rich people" know how to manage their money (as in "how did a fool and his money ever get together in the first place") and "poor people" do not, but that is perhaps a bias I have.

Beside money, there are also other aspects of life. I could never understand as a kid why Hollywood celebrities had so many problems. After all, they were good looking (usually), famous, and probably wealthy (at least the movie they starred in was a box office hit). Then as I navigated through life, I discovered that sometimes beauty is only skin deep and sometimes ugliness goes all the way to the bone.

We like to compare ourselves with others. We want to know who is at the top of the Forbes list of richest people, who wins the Superbowl, and who wins the World Series (and so forth). When I was younger, I compared myself with others more and felt inadequate when I didn't measure up to the image I had of them. As I get older, I realize my own inner peace is more important. I'm content with my station in life now (as in "I'm having fun now"). Much of that feeling is based on successfully overcoming all of the hurdles I encountered along the way.

Most of the time, I could afford several of the toys I see people with. I would just have to sell some of my income-producing assets to be able to buy those wasting assets. I'm not willing to do this. Instead, I will use the income from my income-producing assets (when it gets large enough) to buy wasting assets (i.e., nonessential toys) if I still want to buy them at that point. I feel in control of my financial destiny now because I've learned the rules of money (at least some of them anyway) and am following them. Knowledge and self-discipline is the key.
__________________
rogersteciak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 03:37 PM   #35
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 443
money do NOT control me. i would never ever let that happen.

in truth, my wife control the money then she controls me.


enuff
__________________

__________________
Enuff2Eat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Silva Mind Control? Orchidflower Other topics 33 02-26-2008 01:43 AM
Control freaks, advice from others LeatherneckPA Other topics 19 11-18-2007 10:13 PM
Anyone fixed a cruise control before? Nords Other topics 55 08-10-2007 03:21 PM
Cruise control Mr._johngalt Other topics 30 11-20-2006 07:32 PM
Birth Control in the South - Joke...... Cut-Throat Other topics 5 05-19-2005 04:23 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:27 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.