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Old 01-06-2014, 03:54 PM   #141
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You know, every time one of these threads come up I say to myself "Don't get involved, you'll just say things you will regret and make an idiot of yourself"
+1

Exactly why I rarely participate in "mine is bigger that yours/I spend less than you" threads.
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:56 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
"Money money money
Always sunny
In the rich man's world...
" --- ABBA
"Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay
And your O.K.

Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands
And make a stash

New car, caviar, four star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team

Money get back
I'm all right Jack
Keep your hands off my stack"

--- Pink Floyd
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:08 PM   #143
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Is it better to be a Colonel and not a Corporal, or Bezos instead of any of us? Perhaps this is so. But there is a price to pay, the benefit doesn't always equal the cost, and the price is different for all of us. For some is it very steep indeed.

One thing we do have in common - we all excel at rationalizing our choice.
For sure. However, I am fully in favor of money, and I do not have so very much, so in my case it is not a rationalization, just an observation of life.

I feel that being rich enough does not corrode well being and pleasure nearly as much as having to scrimp and deny oneself every day.

We all know people who are always on the make, and they are generally deservedly disliked. In my experience, this does not characterize most highly successful (read rich) people.

Ha
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:13 PM   #144
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Is it better to be a Colonel and not a Corporal, or Bezos instead of any of us? Perhaps this is so. But there is a price to pay, the benefit doesn't always equal the cost, and the price is different for all of us. For some is it very steep indeed.

One thing we do have in common - we all excel at rationalizing our choice.
Interesting discussion, I'm glad I started it and particularly happy for the response for those of you with more conservative portfolios.

There are obviously several of us like myself who take a perverse pleasure in the ups and downs, and perhaps more importantly take pleasure in playing the game.

There is a class of pure gamblers who'd enjoy flipping a coin for a large portion of their net worth. In my case I will say that I have no interest in flipping coins for a millions though. I think it would have be at least $2 million if I won and $1 million if I lost to play that coin flip game. I guess looking at the long term returns of stocks vs bond that seems to about the right odds I am getting. Which is why like NW I'll keep my AA between 60-80% stocks, unless there are structural reasons that change the relative returns.

Even though I don't really have major spending plans, I have been watching/helping my mom give away her money to those she cares about and it provides a significant pleasure to both her and the receiver. I have too many year ahead of me to do this in a major way, but I am looking forward to doing when I get older. Yesterday I gave a big check on her behalf to my sister, and it actually shut me sister up for a full 10 minutes. Priceless

Still Micheal did nail it we are all excellent at rationalizing our choices.
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:15 PM   #145
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To us it's just about having more choices. We don't have to choose between paying for heating oil or tires for the car or buying groceries for the week. We both grew up in that world (as did many others here) so by that measure we are "rich".

We have the option to dine at a fine restaurant pretty much whenever we want to, which is not often, and that's not everyone's preference. If we want some new clothes or a new car or to hire a plumber instead of spending a day in frustration struggling with fittings and pipes or take a trip for a week seeing relatives we can afford that. We couldn't do that growing up.

As most have noted it's not about the money. It's about having options that are important to you.
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:35 PM   #146
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+1
I think that was a cheap shot?
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:37 PM   #147
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This reminds me when one of my good friends once told me that as well as my life has gone.... he didn't want to be me, but rather, he wanted to be one of my kids in his next life.
I can't wait until next life. I am up for sale now if anyone rich here wants to adopt me as brother, son, etc.. . I will shovel the snow for you, get your grand children to visit you on your birthday, will drive you to doctor's appointments and back, ....
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:02 PM   #148
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Supporting this is that there seem to be more ready smiles on third world faces than walking down any big city US street.
I have heard many people who have visited 2nd and 3rd world countries report back on the amount of joi de vivre present in the air and on faces. India springs to mind. My only direct experiences of a poorer country were a few visits to Tijuana and the very northern part of the Baja peninsula. I do remember seeing quite a lot of children begging on the streets of Tijuana, selling candy to tourists but they didn't look particularly happy - just driven.

I wonder if we have a tendency to romanticize life in poorer places? I wouldn't mind betting that many of those people would love to have our incomes, if not our culture.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:08 PM   #149
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To us it's just about having more choices. We don't have to choose between paying for heating oil or tires for the car or buying groceries for the week. We both grew up in that world (as did many others here) so by that measure we are "rich".

We have the option to dine at a fine restaurant pretty much whenever we want to, which is not often, and that's not everyone's preference. If we want some new clothes or a new car or to hire a plumber instead of spending a day in frustration struggling with fittings and pipes or take a trip for a week seeing relatives we can afford that. We couldn't do that growing up.

As most have noted it's not about the money. It's about having options that are important to you.
+1 to this! I am only 46 (47 this week) ... but this resonates the best. We're not quite all the way to FIRE, due mostly to 2 kids to put through college starting next year, but we're getting a lot closer and the reasoning above resonates!

Personally, I do enjoy 'the game' and continue to actively trade a 80% equity portfolio actively .. chasing my 74 YO FIL who is doing same and pays more in taxed than I make in a year
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:11 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
To us it's just about having more choices. We don't have to choose between paying for heating oil or tires for the car or buying groceries for the week. We both grew up in that world (as did many others here) so by that measure we are "rich".

We have the option to dine at a fine restaurant pretty much whenever we want to, which is not often, and that's not everyone's preference. If we want some new clothes or a new car or to hire a plumber instead of spending a day in frustration struggling with fittings and pipes or take a trip for a week seeing relatives we can afford that. We couldn't do that growing up.

As most have noted it's not about the money. It's about having options that are important to you.
Thanks Walt for putting my feelings into words !
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:18 PM   #151
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I have heard many people who have visited 2nd and 3rd world countries report back on the amount of joi de vivre present in the air and on faces.
I've grown up in one (collected papers and bottles to sell them to a junk shop) and can tell you from my experience that people adept to life's hardship and still can find laughter. It is also easier to deal with poverty if you are surrounded by it - maybe, that's what you saw in India. If you have never been in absolute poverty & desperation, you may not get what I just said.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:20 PM   #152
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Honestly, I hope to leave a legacy of 1m. With an 8% annual return & no withdrawals, I should hit that # in 7 yrs and then I'll start withdrawing. Right about the time I'm eligible for maximum SSA
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:04 PM   #153
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I have heard many people who have visited 2nd and 3rd world countries report back on the amount of joi de vivre present in the air and on faces. India springs to mind. My only direct experiences of a poorer country were a few visits to Tijuana and the very northern part of the Baja peninsula. I do remember seeing quite a lot of children begging on the streets of Tijuana, selling candy to tourists but they didn't look particularly happy - just driven.

I wonder if we have a tendency to romanticize life in poorer places? I wouldn't mind betting that many of those people would love to have our incomes, if not our culture.
Judging the third world by Tijuana would be like judging the US by a visit to Disney Land or maybe east St. Louis. Also, get away from the beachfront resorts in Jamaica and wander into Kingston- unless you get killed you will see many people whose lives have been damaged by poverty and contact with tourism.

I don't romanticize the third world, I basically dislike being there. But my memories plus a lot of photos support what I said. However, Tijuana has been a commercial sex stop and R&R destination for generations.

Ha
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:13 PM   #154
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Tijuana is not indicative of most 3rd world countries. It's akin to stating that the projects are similar to SF's Nob Hill
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:15 PM   #155
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I think that was a cheap shot?
Think again - and check out my edit.
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:22 PM   #156
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...
There is a class of pure gamblers who'd enjoy flipping a coin for a large portion of their net worth. In my case I will say that I have no interest in flipping coins for a millions though. I think it would have be at least $2 million if I won and $1 million if I lost to play that coin flip game. I guess looking at the long term returns of stocks vs bond that seems to about the right odds I am getting. Which is why like NW I'll keep my AA between 60-80% stocks, unless there are structural reasons that change the relative returns.

Even though I don't really have major spending plans, I have been watching/helping my mom give away her money to those she cares about and it provides a significant pleasure to both her and the receiver. I have too many year ahead of me to do this in a major way, but I am looking forward to doing when I get older. Yesterday I gave a big check on her behalf to my sister, and it actually shut me sister up for a full 10 minutes. Priceless
...
I like money, though I do not have immediate use for more of it. But I'll find something, I am sure.

And there are only 2 ways of making it that I personally know: 1) working, and 2) by investing. For 10 years prior to full retirement, I had been making the low 6-figure with my part-time consulting work, and it quite often was enjoyable highly technical and specialized work. I stopped because I felt my time was running out, plus my children already got to the financial independence state (hope they will continue to prosper). So, this leaves investing as the only way now. And that's what the OP was asking about.

I never like gambling. I do not know any card game, or rather could not remember any game rule that was taught to me. Investing is more like a chess game; it's not over in one instant deal of cards. More than a chess game, even if you have made a mistake, you can change your mind once you realize the error sufficiently early, and still come out OK. It's also about fighting your inner greed and fear as well as the faceless crowd out there whom you have to bid against some time.

About what to use any extra money for, my sister-in-law just contacted my wife to see if we want to donate some more money to the 3rd-world charity organizations we have been giving to. I told my wife to go ahead, though we will not give as much as last year.

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I have heard many people who have visited 2nd and 3rd world countries report back on the amount of joi de vivre present in the air and on faces.
...
I wonder if we have a tendency to romanticize life in poorer places? I wouldn't mind betting that many of those people would love to have our incomes, if not our culture.
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... people adept to life's hardship and still can find laughter. It is also easier to deal with poverty if you are surrounded by it...
Unless one is laying on the ground, all shriveled up from hunger, and waiting to die with flies crawling on the face, he usually has some relative happy moments: a better meal than normal, a successful harvest, an extra bonus or a raise from his employer, a loving gesture from his sweetheart. But it does not mean a poor person in a 3rd word country would decline a chance to migrate, legally I will add, to a developed country where he has a better opportunity to earn a better life.
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Old 01-06-2014, 07:22 PM   #157
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Judging the third world by Tijuana would be like judging the US by a visit to Disney Land or maybe east St. Louis. Also, get away from the beachfront resorts in Jamaica and wander into Kingston- unless you get killed you will see many people whose lives have been damaged by poverty and contact with tourism.

I don't romanticize the third world, I basically dislike being there. But my memories plus a lot of photos support what I said. However, Tijuana has been a commercial sex stop and R&R destination for generations.

Ha
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Tijuana is not indicative of most 3rd world countries. It's akin to stating that the projects are similar to SF's Nob Hill
Perhaps I didn't express myself very well, but I'm well aware that TJ is not representative of the 2nd or 3rd world in general, which is why I stated that, "My only direct experiences of a poorer country were a few visits to Tijuana and the very northern part of the Baja peninsula."

Points noted and taken.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:11 PM   #158
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"As a secular psychological concept, greed is, similarly, an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs. The degree of inordinance is related to the inability to control the reformulation of "wants" once desired "needs" are eliminated. Erich Fromm described greed as "a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction." It is typically used to criticize those who seek excessive material wealth, although it may apply to the need to feel more excessively moral, social, or otherwise better than someone else."
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:24 PM   #159
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To us it's just about having more choices. We don't have to choose between paying for heating oil or tires for the car or buying groceries for the week. We both grew up in that world (as did many others here) so by that measure we are "rich".

We have the option to dine at a fine restaurant pretty much whenever we want to, which is not often, and that's not everyone's preference. If we want some new clothes or a new car or to hire a plumber instead of spending a day in frustration struggling with fittings and pipes or take a trip for a week seeing relatives we can afford that. We couldn't do that growing up.

As most have noted it's not about the money. It's about having options that are important to you.
+1 Great post. While I never considered my family wealthy when I was growing up in the 1960s and 1970s, we never had to make any tough choices between vital expenses such as food or housing. If we wanted to do something badly enough, from going out to eat to going on a vacation (not an extravagant one), we did it. This was the same for me in my adult life, including now in my ER years. If I want to take my ladyfriend out to eat, I can do it without fear of busting my budget. When my PC died 2 years ago and I needed to replace it, I knew I could shell out $400 for a new one without worrying about busting my budget. I always have these choices and can buy my way out of most any jam I get myself into, not just when I was working but in ER.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:22 AM   #160
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..........Exactly why I rarely participate in "mine is bigger that yours/I spend less than you" threads.
I participate in fewer of these threads than you do.
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