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Old 12-13-2014, 01:25 PM   #81
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This discussion means nothing if you consider pensioners vs. non-pensioners. Add to that medical insurance folks vs. those who pay it all.

Unless you frame it with those parameters, it means nothing.

My father didn't have millions. But he had a pension and awesome medical insurance. To me and my siblings, that turned out to be worth multi-millions.

It is a worthless discussion. I'm done.
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Old 12-13-2014, 07:09 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Senator View Post
I started a thread "Is Everyone a Multi-Millionaire?" a while ago.

I came to the same conclusion. You are looking at a biased sample, early retirees. Some way early. It is near impossible to retire early, with a large income, and not be a millionaire.

Anyone can retire at the equivalent of $40K a year, just by quitting and taking advantage of social programs. But if you want to be able to live a decent lifestyle, it takes a decent pension or a lot of money.



Maybe $40k a year in government programs if you're a single parent with a few kids. Even then, you're probably going to have to hold a job, or at least be diligently looking for one. All under the scrutiny of a social worker of course.
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:32 PM   #83
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I can't imagine ever having that much money (even if I worked to 100) and can't imagine how that couldn't be enough

To put it gently, you are probably doing something wrong. I knew when I was 15 I was going to be a millionaire, but that is when I learned about compound interest and started investing for the first time.
Not saying I won't have WAY enough to have a comfortable retirement...but not a 3.1 million portfolio.

Considering that most folks approach retirement far under a million, I guess most of us have been doing something wrong, working our tails off for 30 years. Maybe it comes down to WHOM you know, after all...a four-year degree just isn't enough anymore, I guess.

And, when I was 15 with a father who topped out at about $25K, I wasn't thinking about becoming a millionaire.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:19 AM   #84
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Here in the USA, anyone can be a millionaire.

LBYM and do not get too greedy will do it. Work hard, save even harder, and make the financial decisions that have worked for generations. Do not think you are smarter because you went to some fancy investment/trading course.
I'd say "Here in the USA, any one who can save $10,000 per year every year for 40 years, and earn inflation plus 4% (after fees), can become a millionaire."

I'm pretty sure there are lots of Americans who can't satisfy those conditions.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:20 AM   #85
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I have an idea. When I first found this website I found it extremely useful, especially this forum called FIRE & Money. However, the OP is right on in that many posters on this forum seem to have nothing to worry about using the 4% Rule yet they fret, and often brag.

So my idea, since the FIRE & Money Forum is now so big and too diverse (look at the stats), perhaps it would be better to subcategorize it? Maybe two or three sub groups such as:

• FIRE & Money 1: Those Still Trying to Achieve Their ER Goals.
• FIRE & Money 2: Those Managing Their ER Lifestyle.

I suggest this because it is hard to relate to those who are in a different place than you are. This is why that people in Group 1 have a hard time relating to those in Group 2, although those in the latter group may have good advice as to how to achieve one's goals. And only half in jest I suggest a Group 3: Those Who Inherited Their Wealth (or married into money), since they can't relate to the hard work and savings necessary for those in Group 1. And I know that to be true from all my relatives and friends who come from family money or married into it: They can't really relate to the Blood, Sweat & Tears earners, so there should be that Group 3, no?

Seriously though, I would like to have a sub forum of those who do not yet have the nest egg they would like. It would make this great ER site more useful. I am always searching for a site like that I can relate to.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:47 AM   #86
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• FIRE & Money 1: Those Still Trying to Achieve Their ER Goals.
• FIRE & Money 2: Those Managing Their ER Lifestyle.

I suggest this because it is hard to relate to those who are in a different place than you are. This is why that people in Group 1 have a hard time relating to those in Group 2, although those in the latter group may have good advice as to how to achieve one's goals. And only half in jest I suggest a Group 3: Those Who Inherited Their Wealth (or married into money), since they can't relate to the hard work and savings necessary for those in Group 1. And I know that to be true from all my relatives and friends who come from family money or married into it: They can't really relate to the Blood, Sweat & Tears earners, so there should be that Group 3, no?

Seriously though, I would like to have a sub forum of those who do not yet have the nest egg they would like. It would make this great ER site more useful. I am always searching for a site like that I can relate to.
Excuse me but this idea of segregation by wealth or source of wealth in a forum is just absurd. You can't assume a person who inherited $ or married into it does not have excellent skills managing it. He/she may not need to save as much, but if they have good financial advice to offer I sure want to hear about it! Diversity is what makes this forum wonderful.

In terms of the intention of some postings being questionable, I'd suggest if you want to avoid getting "ridiculed" as one OP put it, you don't state the $ amount in absolute term. Instead, you can post your expenses/budget as % of your nest egg. Again, the $3.1M posting was a legitimate question and true concern in my opinion, not bragging, because his existing expenses is at a 5+% SWR which is not sustainable if he retired now. I think the forum and people's comments helped him realize he needs to take a closer look at his budget if he were to ER. That's what this forum is about, not to categorize or judge people by their wealth in absolute $ figure.

Just my $.02
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:06 AM   #87
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Anyone jealous of those who have multiple millions should realize they will be the ones subsidizing the early retirement ability for those (like me) who have much less.

ACA subsidies/cost sharing, No SS tax, No federal income tax are just a few.

I appreciate more of you collecting $3M to $5M before you pull the switch because it just means more money flowing down to me.
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:12 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
I have an idea. When I first found this website I found it extremely useful, especially this forum called FIRE & Money. However, the OP is right on in that many posters on this forum seem to have nothing to worry about using the 4% Rule yet they fret, and often brag.

So my idea, since the FIRE & Money Forum is now so big and too diverse (look at the stats), perhaps it would be better to subcategorize it? Maybe two or three sub groups such as:

• FIRE & Money 1: Those Still Trying to Achieve Their ER Goals.
• FIRE & Money 2: Those Managing Their ER Lifestyle.

I suggest this because it is hard to relate to those who are in a different place than you are. This is why that people in Group 1 have a hard time relating to those in Group 2, although those in the latter group may have good advice as to how to achieve one's goals. And only half in jest I suggest a Group 3: Those Who Inherited Their Wealth (or married into money), since they can't relate to the hard work and savings necessary for those in Group 1. And I know that to be true from all my relatives and friends who come from family money or married into it: They can't really relate to the Blood, Sweat & Tears earners, so there should be that Group 3, no?

Seriously though, I would like to have a sub forum of those who do not yet have the nest egg they would like. It would make this great ER site more useful. I am always searching for a site like that I can relate to.
Fire & Money 2 is the Young Dreamers sub forum. Just stick to that if you don't want to hear about multimillionaires.

I have another idea. Take what people say at face value. Most of the questions are probably legit, not to brag. And if it's going to bother you, just ignore them, either by not opening them, or open them once and use the Thread Tool to ignore the thread so you'll never see have to be so offended by seeing the subject.
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Does everyone here have millions saved?
Old 12-14-2014, 11:19 AM   #89
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Does everyone here have millions saved?

I can assure you that many of us here do not have millions saved. I know I don't, and I am happily retired with plenty to spend IMO.

I don't live like a rock star, nor do I want to, and I don't live in expensive East Coast or West Coast cities or back home in Honolulu. A modest lifestyle helps when one does not have unlimited resources.
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:28 AM   #90
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alot depends on where you live.

we live in queens ny ,a borough of nyc. just our rent , obama gold plan and our long term care insurance are 38k a year with no other expenses.

we live in a rent stabilized apartment too.

we need a few million in retirement just to generate a middle class life here.

this is where our kids and grandkids are and so this is where we will stay.
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:32 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by JoeWras View Post
This discussion means nothing if you consider pensioners vs. non-pensioners. Add to that medical insurance folks vs. those who pay it all.

Unless you frame it with those parameters, it means nothing.

My father didn't have millions. But he had a pension and awesome medical insurance....
This is spot-on and describes my situation perfectly: a nice nest-egg but one that I would have difficulty living on if it were my only revenue-generating source. But I have military pension and SS. Consequently, I have an income that it would take multiple millions to generate if it all had to come from a portfolio. Throw in a TRICARE supplement to MEDICARE and that reduces the cost of health insurance significantly. So, as the quoted poster is basically saying, you need to look at the total package.
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:33 PM   #92
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I can assure you that many of us here do not have millions saved. I know I don't, and I am happily retired with plenty to spend IMO.

I don't live like a rock star, nor do I want to, and I don't live in expensive East Coast or West Coast cities or back home in Honolulu. A modest lifestyle helps when one does not have unlimited resources.
I doubt that very many (if any) on this board have anywhere near unlimited resources. (I'm sure definitions will vary on what is realistically unlimited) I have a good bit more than a few million and trust me, that's not even close to unlimited.
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:36 PM   #93
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[/B]

Maybe $40k a year in government programs if you're a single parent with a few kids. Even then, you're probably going to have to hold a job, or at least be diligently looking for one. All under the scrutiny of a social worker of course.
No one has to work.

If you know what programs to take advantage of, you can do it. The difference is, you get 'stuff', instead of money. You cannot buy a car with a EBT card, nor can you go on vacation with a Section 8 voucher. Free bus fare and free legal can only take you so far. I was a low-income landlord for a while, and I have seen a lot. My tenants were beneficiaries of many of the Christmas programs that give away toys too.

I know that in MN, a premium healthcare plan, for an early retiree making $15K a year, is ~$12 a month, no deductible. It covers medical, dental and vision. That is worth at least $10K a year.

My DGF will be taking advantage of that healthcare plan when I retire and she quits work. That way, she doesn't have to tap her Roth IRA. The goal is for her to have $1M before she starts to tap it in ~10 years after FIRE.
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:38 PM   #94
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I'd say "Here in the USA, any one who can save $10,000 per year every year for 40 years, and earn inflation plus 4% (after fees), can become a millionaire."

I'm pretty sure there are lots of Americans who can't satisfy those conditions.
The problem is not the saving part, it is the ambition part. Work a second job, save 100% of it. Do odd jobs, make the cash, and save all of it. Take a week off from work, and work a side gig. I know it can be done, I did it myself. Laziness is not a disability.

If all you do is a job, and watch TV, it is near impossible.
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Old 12-14-2014, 02:36 PM   #95
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I doubt that very many (if any) on this board have anywhere near unlimited resources. (I'm sure definitions will vary on what is realistically unlimited) I have a good bit more than a few million and trust me, that's not even close to unlimited.
Unlimited resources are ones that never go away!
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Old 12-14-2014, 03:06 PM   #96
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I can assure you that many of us here do not have millions saved. I know I don't, and I am happily retired with plenty to spend IMO.

I don't live like a rock star, nor do I want to, and I don't live in expensive East Coast or West Coast cities or back home in Honolulu. A modest lifestyle helps when one does not have unlimited resources.
+1
There are many ways to retire without having "millions". IMHO, it takes a commitment to simplicity and frugality without sacrifice, and creativity and ingenuity while being comfortable and satisfied. W2R's post embodies these very qualities.
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Old 12-14-2014, 03:36 PM   #97
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...
I know that in MN, a premium healthcare plan, for an early retiree making $15K a year, is ~$12 a month, no deductible. It covers medical, dental and vision. That is worth at least $10K a year...
My deductible is already $10K a year. And I exceeded that the last 3 years. And that was only for medical insurance. I am on my own regarding dental and vision.
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:55 PM   #98
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If someone posts a question along the lines of "I have $xxx, can I afford to retire?" I think it's fair to assume that they are looking for advice and help and, likewise, think it's rather cynical to speculate that they may merely be looking for ego gratification.
+1 !

ETA: Gumby said it best. Do I have enough for "me and my families needs". Some of us have very low risk tolerances, some are more risk tolerant. Some have pensions, some don't. For me, yes, I need 3mm. Because my risk tolerance is low and I'm assuming that HC is going to cost me 26k / year. I'll probably die with alot of money - which will be given to charity since we do not have children - and I am very proud to give at end of life.
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Old 12-14-2014, 05:11 PM   #99
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Anyone jealous of those who have multiple millions should realize they will be the ones subsidizing the early retirement ability for those (like me) who have much less.

ACA subsidies/cost sharing, No SS tax, No federal income tax are just a few.

I appreciate more of you collecting $3M to $5M before you pull the switch because it just means more money flowing down to me.
Faulty logic. I have no pension and can't touch SS for at least 4 more years, so I have to live off my savings and investments until then (going back to 2006). I do have more than a million, but DW and I pay in the 5% range in taxes, and stay within the 15% bracket even doing hefty $30-$40K Roth conversions every year. It's not how much you have, it's how much you make in taxable income that puts you in the higher brackets. Minimizing taxes and fees is an ER hobby for me.
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Old 12-14-2014, 05:38 PM   #100
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From X number of people who can have millions by 50 only maybe 10% do. The rest is more interested in driving Tesla or latest BMW and impressing their neighbours

And there is nothing wrong with that.
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