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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-16-2007, 02:05 PM   #21
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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Sarah: Are these women your age? I could see this coming from my mother's generation (she is 68), because that's what people thought was normal in the day, but I can't imagine where any woman in her 30's ever got the idea that it was okay not to support herself.
Golddiggers existed long before your mother and will be around long after we're all forgotten. Even if they aren't so obviously focused on getting assets, I see all sorts of men married to women of all ages who enjoy their ability to live a life of leisure. Hubby's job is to make the money and it's their job to spend it. Some are very good at making sure all of it gets spent and then some.

Of course, it's both of their fault. It's important to communicate and come to an understanding. Of course, some people have pointed out that their "understanding" involved lawyers. Picking a spouse with a frugal streak is important. Unfortunately, it's not always so obvious while dating.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-16-2007, 02:18 PM   #22
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-16-2007, 03:07 PM   #23
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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Golddiggers existed long before your mother and will be around long after we're all forgotten. Even if they aren't so obviously focused on getting assets, I see all sorts of men married to women of all ages who enjoy their ability to live a life of leisure. Hubby's job is to make the money and it's their job to spend it. Some are very good at making sure all of it gets spent and then some.

Of course, it's both of their fault. It's important to communicate and come to an understanding. Of course, some people have pointed out that their "understanding" involved lawyers. Picking a spouse with a frugal streak is important. Unfortunately, it's not always so obvious while dating.

Welcome to suburbia, at least in my neck of the woods! Most women around here ship their kids off to camps, sitters and school and shop til they drop or "do lunch" and drinks after the gym. It was truly an eye-opener! They hire decorators, housekeepers and personal chefs.That is life in affluent America! To me it is truly boring!

I am really fortunate that my husband works out of the home and that I have done part-time work with him after leaving Corporate America. I also handle all the finances for our family and extended family. I do not fit in at the neighborhood housewife club. DH and I are of like mind on everything financial and are truly best friends...

Why do we live here? One reason...the schools are excellent. Once the youngest finishes high school we are outtahere! We are counting the months...
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-16-2007, 03:58 PM   #24
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

DW has no idea how all of this works. I'm sure that she assumed that mirrors and smoke are in the final mix though.

Annually we sit down and go over our financial plan, our IPS, our totals in all funds, review why we have what we have in our asset allocation etc., etc.

Her usual comment: "Well, we certainly are doing well, aren't we?"

I always end up with this "What are your questions about what we just reviewed?" SILANCE fills the room.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-16-2007, 11:11 PM   #25
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

First husband was pretty good with saving and LBYM. Unfortunately he wasn't very good at contributing to the household income. It started out okay -- he quit his job and headed off to grad school to get a degree that would afford us a better life. Got his masters fairly quickly, but then he needed a 'break' from all that school work. Took some more classes then he needed to "find himself". One more semester and then he absolutely needed to hike the Pacific Crest trail. It wasn't that he didn't want to finish his degree -- he was trying to extend his college experience so he wouldn't have to endure the working world again (never mind that this put me in the position of carrying the entire load for nearly 7 years).

I think common financial goals is very important, but sometimes it isn't enough.

Second husband wasn't that good at saving or LBYM but it was mostly due to spending habits of his first wife. After a year of dating it was clear that we were financially compatible. We've done very well together in making progress towards FIRE.

Given my Saver/LBYM personality, I don't think I could tolerate someone who didn't share my financial goals. My girlfirend is a saver but her husband isn't -- he frequently rewards himself for just going to work each day. It is painful to listen to her wring her hands over their $0 balance savings/retirement accounts. They are 47 and 52. Ouch.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 12:01 AM   #26
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

Mostly. I'm frugal and she's stingy.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 07:15 AM   #27
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

What I've seen is that wifey will stay home with the kids (as mine did). As the youngest gets into middle school, mom isn't needed as much and could rejoin the workforce. She decides she likes the leisure time and fills her day with more enjoyable activities. As the kids continue to age, they need even less care and she's effectively ER'd. BarbaraAnne sums it up well for the wives of upper middle earning males.

I saw my DW turning into this. I would come home and endure discussions about how the curtains we've had for 3 years no longer match the sofa we've had for 2. She "knew" both needed to be replaced to make the room look "right." I encouraged her to "resume her career" and about 90% of household "angst" conversions went away. Expenses also dropped in many other areas.

I started a thread a few weeks ago called "What Women Want" that brought up my observations over Christmas of several other couples and their "suburbia-retired" wives. They have a great deal and don't want it to change by their husband actually retiring himself.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 08:00 AM   #28
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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Mostly. I'm frugal and she's stingy.
I frequently have to explain the differences between frugal and cheap.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 09:54 AM   #29
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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There's no telling these guys to run, unfortunately.
If they are going to run, they had better run young. While child support sucks, if you have a good job it is nothing compared to a big assets loss when you divorce once you are established. And child support has an end point. Asset loss is the loss that keeps on losing.

IMO, the whole concept of marriage needs to be reworked. All marriages should be considered annual contracts, until children are born and those children are shown by DNA to belong to the husband. At that point the game changes. Prior to that, you can leave anytime by paying a fine to the one left behind.

American men are nuts and this included me. We gladly step into a yoke. What we are going to get is unclear, what we are going to give is subject to changing social trends and legally enforceable.

Much as I like kids and would love to have grandkids, if either of my sons had asked me what I thought about their plans in the family area, I would have said keep your own place and stay away from commitments. The rest has too much risk of being a walk down pain alley.

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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 10:12 AM   #30
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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Originally Posted by HaHa

IMO, the whole concept of marriage needs to be reworked. All marriages should be considered annual contracts, until children are born and those children are shown by DNA to belong to the husband. At that point the game changes. Prior to that, you can leave anytime by paying a fine to the one left behind.
Although I won't say there aren't things about your ideas that are personally appealing, I will point out that the entire family law system is geared around the concept that, in the event that a single woman (or man, technically) ends up raising children, SOMEONE pays them child support. The system agressively holds the notion that they do not care who the biological father is. They advocate for the child, not the rights of the father or mother.

If male A is the biological father and is a veritable deadbeat, and male B lived with the mother (married or not), provided support (or might have, or could, or should have...) for the kid, and subsequently left, the legal system is all too happy to force B to pay child support.

Lots of luck getting this stuff based on DNA.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 10:26 AM   #31
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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Originally Posted by Linney
First husband was pretty good with saving and LBYM. Unfortunately he wasn't very good at contributing to the household income. <snip> -- he was trying to extend his college experience so he wouldn't have to endure the working world again (never mind that this put me in the position of carrying the entire load for nearly 7 years).
I could have written this. Except mine didn't even want to hike the PCT - he wanted to hang out in the local bar with all his "friends." It took me a really long time to realize he was NEVER going to get around to supporting himself, much less actually SAVING anything.

My current SO and I are AMAZINGLY compatible - especially in the financial area. (among others). The more we got to know each other the more we were saying, "Yeah, me too!" We have similar net worths and similar goals...although he was planning to FIRE for most of his life, it didn't really occurr to me until about 10 years ago. His plans were derailed by two incompatible wives, but are now back on track thanks to our combined assets (not comingled, just considered as a whole) and reduced expenses.

We still do well with balancing an enjoyment of the present with saving for the future, and tend to agree on most major expenses. I don't complain when he "needs" tools and he doesn't complain when I "need" books. We both "need" a vacation on a regular basis. We are in complete agreement on avoiding expensive houses, furnishings, cars, clothing, etc.

So to answer the OP - There is nothing more important than a compatible mate!
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 10:52 AM   #32
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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Originally Posted by Sheryl
I could have written this. Except mine didn't even want to hike the PCT - he wanted to hang out in the local bar with all his "friends." It took me a really long time to realize he was NEVER going to get around to supporting himself, much less actually SAVING anything.

My current SO and I are AMAZINGLY compatible - especially in the financial area. (among others). The more we got to know each other the more we were saying, "Yeah, me too!" We have similar net worths and similar goals...although he was planning to FIRE for most of his life, it didn't really occurr to me until about 10 years ago. His plans were derailed by two incompatible wives, but are now back on track thanks to our combined assets (not comingled, just considered as a whole) and reduced expenses.

We still do well with balancing an enjoyment of the present with saving for the future, and tend to agree on most major expenses. I don't complain when he "needs" tools and he doesn't complain when I "need" books. We both "need" a vacation on a regular basis. We are in complete agreement on avoiding expensive houses, furnishings, cars, clothing, etc.

So to answer the OP - There is nothing more important than a compatible mate!
I noticed a common thread. Second (or later) marriages seem to address the problems identified in the prior marriage(s). Unlike the military, fighting the last "war" seems to work out in marriage.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 11:22 AM   #33
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

this has been an interesting read -

first marriage for both of us of over 30 years (mere children when we were married by a justice). We had no idea what we were doing at first but since we both were raised poor and didn't want to be poor anymore we worked very hard. DH was a dedicated saver and once I saw how quickly money builds up I got on the bandwagon. We've had a lot of ups and downs like everyone.

I still say marry for love, the kind in your heart not in your pocketbook or in your reproductive organs.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 11:43 AM   #34
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosco
Although I won't say there aren't things about your ideas that are personally appealing, I will point out that the entire family law system is geared around the concept that, in the event that a single woman (or man, technically) ends up raising children, SOMEONE pays them child support. The system agressively holds the notion that they do not care who the biological father is. They advocate for the child, not the rights of the father or mother.

If male A is the biological father and is a veritable deadbeat, and male B lived with the mother (married or not), provided support (or might have, or could, or should have...) for the kid, and subsequently left, the legal system is all too happy to force B to pay child support.

Lots of luck getting this stuff based on DNA.
I'm quite aware of this. The Socialist Republic of Washington is in the forefront of this hypocritical travesty. Here's another one for those men who might be tempted to live with a woman in Washington, thinking that since they are not married the state will not be able to take over and impoverish them should they decide that they wish to move on. It's called "meretricious relationship", and it really sounds like fun.

Here's a link to an attorney who is soliciting this business.

http://www.theseattledivorceattorney.com/id10.html

Ha
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 01:02 PM   #35
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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Originally Posted by HaHa
I'm quite aware of this. The Socialist Republic of Washington is in the forefront of this hypocritical travesty. Here's another one for those men who might be tempted to live with a woman in Washington, thinking that since they are not married the state will not be able to take over and impoverish them should they decide that they wish to move on. It's called "meretricious relationship", and it really sounds like fun.

Here's a link to an attorney who is soliciting this business.

http://www.theseattledivorceattorney.com/id10.html

Ha
I love it.

All the people that cohabit because they know they don't want to have children and/or want to avoid all of the legal entanglements should things fall apart now can never be sure. Obviously, the lawyers were losing out on all of the juicy divorce battles with our more "open relationship" society. "Meretricious relationships" can't help but generate a lengthy legal fight if either partner has any "personal" assets the other partner lusts after.

It sounds like should I ever be single again that I need a "pre-anything" agreement to be signed by a startled woman on our first meeting to cover any and all possible future situations.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 01:20 PM   #36
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

I am lucky that I am married to a wonderful man. He has worked hard over the years and never complains or demands anything (well not too much). He is not at all financially astute, but he is grateful that I have taken charge of this area as he says it makes it all worthwhile for him to know that his efforts have not been in vain and that our net worth is not $0 because of trips to the mall to buy "things". He was truly astounded last year when I told him we should be able to retire in 2008 as it had not even occurred to him that it would be possible.

I think our marriage works because we see it as being a partnership, with each of us contributing different skills.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 01:29 PM   #37
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

My EX left partly because I was too frugal.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 01:36 PM   #38
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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It sounds like should I ever be single again that I need a "pre-anything" agreement to be signed by a startled woman on our first meeting to cover any and all possible future situations.
Hi, I'm Bob and I like you! You are one pretty woman, and smart too! But you should know that although I have been considerate and loving in past relationships, past performance does not necessarily predict future results.

I have not had a microbiological survey done on my G-U tract; although I am at present unaware of any unwholesome inhabitants, that might be an incomplete picture, or reflect unpredictable incubation periods or could change due to other entanglements yet to come. I may or may not be afflicted with Hansen's Disease. As you can see I am an older man, and I could do a "Nelson Rockefeller". On behalf of my estate, I expressly disclaim any liability from this possibility. Should I have an erection that lasts more than 4 hours, is is your responsibility to call 911.

Whatever I spend on you or give you as a gift is lovingly and perpetually bestowed on you. Anything else in none of your damn business.

Any use of words such as love, cherish, undying, etc. should be construed only as sex talk with no meaning beyond the business at hand.

My attitudes toward sore losers are derived from watching The Sopranos.

If any of the above troubles you, please leave the room immediately. Your continued presence indicates your acceptance of our usage contract.

Have nice day!

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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 04:59 PM   #39
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

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My EX left partly because I was too frugal.
You saw it as frugal. EX probably saw it as cheap or stingy. Ask CFB about the difference. Then I'll correct him.
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?
Old 02-17-2007, 05:13 PM   #40
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Re: Does your spouse share your financial goals?

"You see hon, frugal is all about getting your moneys worth...cheap is simply not spending money even when its advisable or beneficial to do so...now...'frugal' was buying you the Lexus you wanted as its very reliable and will hold good residual value...'cheap' would have been getting you a '98 Escort instead...which of course would lead to 'divorce', which is very expensive and quite undesirable...whether you're 'cheap' OR 'frugal'"
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