Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Doing it on Dividends Alone?
Old 04-13-2012, 03:55 PM   #1
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Marietta
Posts: 117
Doing it on Dividends Alone?

I searched the forum, but couldn't get the answers I am looking for. Does anybody get all their current and future needs met on dividend income alone? By that I mean producing an income flow that allows money left over at the end of the month to keep up with inflation pad out the emergency fund etc.

If I was to plan that for retirement what would be some good assumptions for average div rate for a basket like a high yield dividend ETF. Just turning 40 plan on working for at least another 6-10 years. Want to use that time to see if I can build a portfolio that can create that type of stream.

For number crunches out there lets assume my current lifestyle requires $4500 a month before tax. What sort of emergency fund would you keep on hand in cash to ride out a period wher dividends dropped and anything else you can see as a pitfall of this strategy. Lets assume that over the next 10 years I can build such a portfolio.

I think knowing that I could never outlive my mest egg is a big plus for me and would have me pulling the trigger quickly.
Look forward to you input.
__________________

__________________
Give me a surfboard and a hammock, some fresh fruit and veg, a fish or two and I am happy for life. I don't need much of a roof over my head to be happy.
RetirementColdHardTruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-13-2012, 04:16 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,366
Ballpark: $2.5m, with $340k in emergency fund (cash), the remainder in a 60/40 equity/fixed AA. That should generate about a 2.5% return, which upon $2.16m yields $4500 monthly.
__________________

__________________
GrayHare is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 04:19 PM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Marietta
Posts: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayHare View Post
Ballpark: $2.5m, with $340k in emergency fund (cash), the remainder in a 60/40 equity/fixed AA. That should generate about a 2.5% return, which upon $2.16m yields $4500 monthly.
Again, thats not Dividends alone. AA needs to be 100% dividend etf.
__________________
Give me a surfboard and a hammock, some fresh fruit and veg, a fish or two and I am happy for life. I don't need much of a roof over my head to be happy.
RetirementColdHardTruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 04:25 PM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,366
IMO you'll get about the same 2.5% on equities alone, but with more risk.
__________________
GrayHare is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 04:44 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
Ronnieboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 646
CyclingInvestor, I believe, is pretty much living off dividends.
I am looking for something similar, but I don't really care if I leave anything behind, so if I had to dip into principle it wouldn't kill me.
I think you could generate at least 3-4% if you pick up to 40 blue chip dividend companies (PEP, KO, JNJ, CLX, MCD, HNZ, PG, COP, 3M, etc) spread the monies out evenly.

If there is a dividend cut or the company changes direction you can sell and move to another company without a huge interruption (<5%?) (unless there are many companies changing at the same time ) then you can do what most of the people on the board do and cut back a little in a down year.
__________________
I don't want to spend my entire life at work. I deserve more. - Want2retire aka W2R
Ronnieboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 04:52 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetirementColdHardTruth View Post
I searched the forum, but couldn't get the answers I am looking for. Does anybody get all their current and future needs met on dividend income alone? By that I mean producing an income flow that allows money left over at the end of the month to keep up with inflation pad out the emergency fund etc.

If I was to plan that for retirement what would be some good assumptions for average div rate for a basket like a high yield dividend ETF. Just turning 40 plan on working for at least another 6-10 years. Want to use that time to see if I can build a portfolio that can create that type of stream.

For number crunches out there lets assume my current lifestyle requires $4500 a month before tax. What sort of emergency fund would you keep on hand in cash to ride out a period wher dividends dropped and anything else you can see as a pitfall of this strategy. Lets assume that over the next 10 years I can build such a portfolio.

I think knowing that I could never outlive my mest egg is a big plus for me and would have me pulling the trigger quickly.
Look forward to you input.
Do (monthly) dividends from bond funds count? I have 3 bond funds which in 2011 generated about $28k from monthly dividends, more than what I need to cover my expenses in ER. Because any excess (surplus) is reinvested, I have a partial inflation guard to cover against that. I also have a stock mutual fund which generates quarterly dividends which are reinvested.
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.

"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
scrabbler1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 05:18 PM   #7
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnieboy View Post
I think you could generate at least 3-4% if you pick up to 40 blue chip dividend companies (PEP, KO, JNJ, CLX, MCD, HZ, PG, COP, 3M, etc) spread the monies out evenly.
I tried to look up the symbol HZ, but I couldn't find it. Is it supposed to be HZ?

Thanks for sharing the other companies.
__________________
george76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 05:27 PM   #8
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,465
Quote:
Originally Posted by george76 View Post
I tried to look up the symbol HZ, but I couldn't find it. Is it supposed to be HZ?

Thanks for sharing the other companies.
Heinz, perhaps? HNZ
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 05:38 PM   #9
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Heinz, perhaps? HNZ
Of course. That's probably it. Thank you!
__________________
george76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 05:47 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetirementColdHardTruth View Post
Again, thats not Dividends alone. AA needs to be 100% dividend etf.
It's easy enough to figure out. Look at what you might want to buy, look at what the overall dividend income would be, and see if it suits you.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Planning To Do Just That...
Old 04-13-2012, 05:53 PM   #11
Recycles dryer sheets
nvestysly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 417
Planning To Do Just That...

...live off the dividends.

We are planning on a WR of ~3% based on the total of our portfolio today. I use the ~ symbol because on any given day the value of the portfolio changes but the dividends have been consistent and growing. We have been using dividend reinvestment for years in our tax deferred accounts. Starting next year we will turn off the dividend reinvestment and use that cash to live on.

We've seen the dividends decrease in the 2007/2009 time frame and now they are on the rise again. We figure we can weather that storm if it happens again.

Our monthly spend is $5500 and we're living on that amount for a year before we turn on the "spigots" to our IRA's using the 72(t) rule. We want to try this on for size before we invoke 72(t) as there are lots of restrictions once the spigots are turned on.

So the answer for us is YES. We have every intention on living on the dividends alone. I don't expect to dip into the principle since we have an emergency fund that will cover more than one year if needed. In addition, we add to the emergency fund every month. So we're actually living on less than $5500/month since some of that money goes to the emergency fund.

Another interesting aspect of this is that we will not pay much in income taxes. We will continue to itemize due to property taxes and charitable contributions - however, we will be in one of the lowest tax brackets. That will be a welcome relief since we've bumped into AMT a few times in recent years and while it was nice to have that salary it pained me to pay the tax bill.
__________________
Dreamin' of Streamin'
FIRE'd at 52 on 7/8/11
nvestysly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 06:17 PM   #12
Full time employment: Posting here.
Ronnieboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvestysly View Post
...live off the dividends.

We are planning on a WR of ~3% based on the total of our portfolio today. I use the ~ symbol because on any given day the value of the portfolio changes but the dividends have been consistent and growing. We have been using dividend reinvestment for years in our tax deferred accounts. Starting next year we will turn off the dividend reinvestment and use that cash to live on.

We've seen the dividends decrease in the 2007/2009 time frame and now they are on the rise again. We figure we can weather that storm if it happens again.

Our monthly spend is $5500 and we're living on that amount for a year before we turn on the "spigots" to our IRA's using the 72(t) rule. We want to try this on for size before we invoke 72(t) as there are lots of restrictions once the spigots are turned on.

So the answer for us is YES. We have every intention on living on the dividends alone. I don't expect to dip into the principle since we have an emergency fund that will cover more than one year if needed. In addition, we add to the emergency fund every month. So we're actually living on less than $5500/month since some of that money goes to the emergency fund.

Another interesting aspect of this is that we will not pay much in income taxes. We will continue to itemize due to property taxes and charitable contributions - however, we will be in one of the lowest tax brackets. That will be a welcome relief since we've bumped into AMT a few times in recent years and while it was nice to have that salary it pained me to pay the tax bill.

Out of curiosity, was the yearly dividend income in 2007-2009 stagnant or did it actually drop as not all companies cut, and some even increased dividends still.
Is your portfolio individual stocks or some other setup (ETF/Mutual fund)?
__________________
I don't want to spend my entire life at work. I deserve more. - Want2retire aka W2R
Ronnieboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 06:27 PM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
Until we reach 59.5, we plan on living on the dividends and interests generated by our taxable portfolio as well as some rental income. As of today, our largest source of passive income is equity dividends, followed by rental income (net of expenses), followed by interests generated by a CD ladder. If passive income is down, we plan on spending less.
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 06:44 PM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Bikerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,901
I have enough cash to last 10 yrs with a 50% dividend cut. Probably too conservative but I sleep well.
__________________
“I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said” Alan Greenspan
Bikerdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 06:59 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,152
Our plan is to live on dividends and pension, about equal on after tax basis. Portfolio yield is about 3.7% and only one insignificant dividend cut in 2009 ( since disposed of). Dividends have grown about 14% since then. Taxed at about 18% max marg rate in Alberta ,Canada. I figure the divs growth will cover the inflation risk on the non cola'd pension. Obviously, you need a good cash balance in reserve, and we do.
__________________
Danmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 07:09 PM   #16
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Marietta
Posts: 117
Looks like VYM is 2.8% and DVY is 3.3% at todays prices. I will run some numbers. Thanks for all the input it certainly looks like a good way to keep me sleeping well at night and knowing I could basically retire with ease at 46. Maybe that is just too young. It scares me to think that in 6 years I could be done with the grind. But in a good way.
__________________
Give me a surfboard and a hammock, some fresh fruit and veg, a fish or two and I am happy for life. I don't need much of a roof over my head to be happy.
RetirementColdHardTruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 07:21 PM   #17
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
We can't count on what isn't law yet, but those relying on dividends in taxable accounts should probably have a fallback or enough of a buffer to absorb the possibility of significantly higher tax rates in the future.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 07:26 PM   #18
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
We can't count on what isn't law yet, but those relying on dividends in taxable accounts should probably have a fallback or enough of a buffer to absorb the possibility of significantly higher tax rates in the future.
As long as dividends are not taxed higher than earned income and tax brackets don't go sky high for the middle class, we'll be OK I think (as a married couple, we'd be in the 15% tax bracket if DW stopped working).
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 07:30 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,706
Our plan gets us there with a combo of dividends and SS taking up the slack. We have ~ 60/40. Annual overall portfolio growth (in a good year) about 9-10%.

Our SWR is 4%, dividends come in at about 3% and our WR is a little more than 2%, again with SS taking up the slack in the budget.

Love the TR Price RPSIX and PRHYX bond funds!!
__________________
marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 07:50 PM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Helen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnieboy View Post
If there is a dividend cut or the company changes direction you can sell and move to another company without a huge interruption (<5%?)
Typically when a company cuts a dividend the stock price drops quickly, so you might not have as much principal to invest in a new company.

Dow Chemical cut it's dividend for the first time in 97 years in 2009 - by 64% ouch! The stock price dropped like a rock. There were people who had been heavily invested in Dow and living off the dividends that were in real trouble. Some had to sell the stock to generate income back then and the stock price was in the toliet.
__________________

__________________
Helen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:12 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.