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View Poll Results: Doom + Gloomers: what are you doing to prepare?
staying the course against your better judgement 74 66.07%
getting out of stock market 6 5.36%
stockpiling cash 15 13.39%
buying gold 7 6.25%
converting assets to another currency 7 6.25%
stockpiling food/water/guns/ammo 15 13.39%
buying'73 Ford Falcon Coupe and converting it into an impregnable fortress/killing machine (shoulder pads + shotgun free with car) 11 9.82%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-27-2008, 10:57 PM   #41
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Here's a really interesting and contrarian article on survival in tough times by one of the most intelligent bloggers I read.
charles hugh smith-The Art of Survival, Taoism and the Warring States
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:26 PM   #42
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One of my parent's houses is set on 8 acres in Colorado, up in the mountains with few neighbors. We have a Jeep 4x4 SUV. As long as we can get enough gas to get there, there is enough space to grow potatoes, plenty of deer for meat, and plenty of trees for firewood.


Alternately, DW's relatives own literally thousands of acres in Wisconsin, he's a lumberjack and they have about a dozen trout ponds, and deer everywhere as well. It is colder though...
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:06 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Nanita8140 View Post
the president "escaped" via helicopter from "the casa Rosada"(Argentina's White House
Don't you mean Argentina's pink house?

In any case, not a doom-and-gloomer in the least and no change of plans.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:45 AM   #44
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heh heh heh - not to worry. Party on! You don't want to leave too much money on the table - I still believe you can't take it with you.
In case a forum member plans to take it with him/her, it pays to allocate assets. Half in the attic, half in the basement.

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A miser joke
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:47 PM   #45
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I'm willing to go with the '73 falcon if you throw in a cool scruffy dog and a few cans of dog food.
Don't forget a few cans of beer.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:57 PM   #46
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Forgot to add: I did not vote, because the way the poll reads, the prerequisite is that you must be a doom-and-gloomer.

In the late 80's or early 90's there was a period of economic downturn. The Berlin wall had come down, and the defense industrial sector was being downsized. If I recall correctly, that was also the time of the S&L meltdown. People were abandoning their house in California, which was also the location of many defense-sector companies.

With that as the backdrop, it would not be surprising that there were several books written on the impending depression. I personally knew of some people who liquidated their 401k and took a big tax hit to buy gold. Yes, physical gold, because there were no gold ETFs as they exist today. Then, gold went down from $500 to <$300 over the next decade. They missed out on the stock bull run of the 90's. Then, seeing that gold was going nowhere, they moved back to stocks, just as gold climbed to near $1000 where it is today.

How many cycles like that could you afford to mess up before your working life is over?
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:25 PM   #47
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Gosh, no doom or gloom for the cheapskate.

I'm thinking/hoping that the current market corrections might prompt some long over due lifestyle corrections. Heard the other day that gas prices are causing more Americans to take public transportation, walk, or bicycle. Heard that soaring food costs are forcing Americans to eat less meat and processed foods. And heard that with the economic slow down, we're spending more time at home, with family.

God, I hate to think what's next: Obesity epidemic declines? Divorce rate drops? Honey bee populations replenish, signalling environmental turn around?

No end to the bad/good news, depending on your perspective.

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Author, The Ultimate Cheapskate's Road Map to True Riches
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:43 PM   #48
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So when one looks at the subsegment that calls themselves doom and gloomers 65 percent stay in stocks and 6 percent are getting out of stocks. Mmmmm I may have to rethink how low the market may go.......
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:42 PM   #49
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... then we would ... go live in my family's compound high up in the mountains on the Swiss/French border. Seventeen acres of fertile farmland, another 12 acres of forest, three houses (with only 1 occupied right now), enough land to feed all of us and enough wood to heat the houses for a lifetime. We have a stream filled with fish traveling across the compound, plenty of wildlife to hunt in the forest, and a massive rain collection system plus 2 springs that would provide adequate drinking water reserves. Also plenty of euros/swiss francs/USD in case any one of those currencies is still worth something.
I read in another post you said you planned to go back to Europe to retire. The environment sounds perfect to me, particularly the stream. People living their life on city water may not appreciate the availability of water.

We spent a week in Switzerland, which was way too short to really go into the countryside. From the train, I saw that the typical Swiss chalet was cute and very small. And many little villages have a communal vegetable garden, divided into small plots. The Swiss have no need for gyms. They get plenty of exercise the natural way, by working in their garden or hiking.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:59 PM   #50
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Don't forget a few cans of beer.
I figured with a shotgun and a testy dog, I can get all the beer...and pretty much anything else...that I want!
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:59 PM   #51
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I read in another post you said you planned to go back to Europe to retire.
Nothing's been decided yet. It will mostly depends on my parents (who live in Europe) and my wife's mom (who lives in the US). I would like to take care of my parents in their old age and that would be a major driver for moving back to Europe. But then, what about my wife's mom? She has no family beside us. So we will see how it pans out. We might do part time in the US, part time in Europe as long as our parents are alive and then decide where to settle for good.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:30 PM   #52
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Didn't fill in the survey as I don't consider myself a traditional D&G'er. But... probably because both parents lived through grinding poverty during the depression I think sooner or later it will be "different this time". This time? Who knows. Next time? The time after? My life time So, yes, a little from column A, some from column B, All the above. But, mostly, staying the course and even trying to diversify more into stocks. (There's a concept)

One of my other mottos (besides Murphy): If the gaters don't getcha, the skeeters will.

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Old 07-28-2008, 09:47 PM   #53
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I'm stocking up on the important things books & wine just in case !
Moe, is your new avatar Carmen Miranda or some other fruit loving entertainer?

Ha
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:52 PM   #54
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But... probably because both parents lived through grinding poverty during the depression I think sooner or later it will be "different this time".
Well, then, it won't be different this time... it'll be same as the last time
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:55 PM   #55
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Oh, and the thread over at Bogleheads, especially page 2, is way more fascinating:

Bogleheads :: View topic - Official Doom and Gloom Thread. Post all D&G msgs here
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:02 PM   #56
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Here's a really interesting and contrarian article on survival in tough times by one of the most intelligent bloggers I read.
charles hugh smith-The Art of Survival, Taoism and the Warring States
Agree. This will likely work, or at least it has a much better chance of working than the usual city-boy arrogance. One thing he didn't mention that cuts the same way- many of these hillbillies (or Mendocino backlanders or whatever) are involved in various illegal activities. They really don't want you around, and they especially don't want you if you look to be setting up some kind of paramiltary or socially odd structure that might attract the lawmen. Marijuana and meth are lawmen- attractors enough without adding Neo-Nazis.

Ha
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:06 AM   #57
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In Smith's article, I particularly like the tips about how to integrate in a small town. I think it's valuable for anyone moving/downsizing to anywhere that's not your typical suburb where anonymity is sometimes prized...even outside of a "doom" scenario.

I think you could even turn it around 180 degrees and use some of the techniques in a big-city apartment building (where it helps to have neighbors you know and can then trust to keep a spare set of keys or to move your car on street-cleaning days if you're not around.. help with big shopping trips, trust to look out for strange activity, stuff like that).

We kind of idolize the American myth of the 'rugged individualist' without really realizing the level of personal interdependency and trust necessary to succeed in a "less-modern" world. At least, I know that it's something I am not used to and that I need to exercise more.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:11 AM   #58
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Moe, is your new avatar Carmen Miranda or some other fruit loving entertainer?

Ha

It is Carmen Miranda . The original things on your head gal . I figured it was a contrast to the doom & gloom area of the economy .
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:20 AM   #59
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Here's a really interesting and contrarian article on survival in tough times by one of the most intelligent bloggers I read.
charles hugh smith-The Art of Survival, Taoism and the Warring States

Great article and having grown up exploring as he did I can see the truth in that approach..
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:33 AM   #60
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I'd have been more impressed with Carmen's efforts had she included some form of baked good or cake, but I guess her option was healthier.

I'm also pretty sure she had no bacon crossovers whatsoever.
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