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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-25-2006, 07:23 PM   #21
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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... just imagine what he could have done in 40 years!! * that said, i'm more than happy to leave that "discussion" to JG and C-T ... i'll just sit back and watch.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-25-2006, 08:08 PM   #22
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

One more time...

Jimmy Carter "...enacted strong environmental legislation; deregulated the trucking, airline, rail, finance, communications, and oil industries, bolstered the social security system; and appointed record numbers of women and minorities to significant government and judicial posts. In foreign affairs, Carter's accomplishments included the Camp David Accords, the Panama Canal Treaties, the creation of full diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China, and the negotiation of the SALT II Treaty..."
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-25-2006, 08:36 PM   #23
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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"Some" don't have any idea what is happening in the oil patch. There is actually a horrific glut of oil and natural gas. I'd say that the price is more like $35 plux $x for uncertainty. I might be wrong but most likely on the high side.

To contain what I see as a price collapse, the Saudis will have to cut 20%.
These folks say it's more like $21:

[img width=750 height=562]http://wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1869.gif[/img]

Interesting to note how, after other mideast crises, that the price comes back down to that level. But, until price levels stay high enough to encourage more production there will continue to be this little problem:



There is a glut, especially in NG, but it's more short term than long term. The graph shows that the system's ability to pick up the slack whenever there is a production drop somewhere is very tight. Disruptions, both real and imagined, tend to be the focus of the speculators who drove the market sky high in the first place.

The Saudis can live with oil down to 50 or so, but Iran and Venezuela need oil to be priced at $60 oil (or higher). Any wonder that most of the crap being stirred in the oil producing news comes from those two countries?

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Originally Posted by HFWR
One more time...

Jimmy Carter "...enacted strong environmental legislation; deregulated the trucking, airline, rail, finance, communications, and oil industries, bolstered the social security system; and appointed record numbers of women and minorities to significant government and judicial posts. In foreign affairs, Carter's accomplishments included the Camp David Accords, the Panama Canal Treaties, the creation of full diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China, and the negotiation of the SALT II Treaty..."
For a guy who was such a great President, why did his own party hate him so at the end of his 4 years? The Democratic led Congress ignored him half the time, and when he ran for re-election he couldn't even win die hard Demo states like New York or Massachusetts.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-25-2006, 08:55 PM   #24
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

I have a hard time understanding how anyone can consider Jimmy Carter any more than a lower quartile president. It can only be the result of enormous quatities of Democratic Party Kool Aid. Its been long enough to let the poor man fall to the level he deserves. Every historian based review of his presidency puts him in the lower quartile.

As for worst presidents, I'm favoring James Buchanan. He successfully guaranteed the Civil War.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-25-2006, 08:56 PM   #25
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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For a guy who was such a great President, why did his own party hate him so at the end of his 4 years?* The Democratic led Congress ignored him half the time, and when he ran for re-election he couldn't even win die hard Demo states like New York or Massachusetts.
Well, I'm not necessarily defending Carter; just quoting Wikipedia... *
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-25-2006, 08:58 PM   #26
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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Originally Posted by 2B
I have a hard time understanding how anyone can consider Jimmy Carter any more than a lower quartile president.* It can only be the result of enormous quatities of Democratic Party Kool Aid.* Its been long enough to let the poor man fall to the level he deserves.* Every historian based review of his presidency puts him in the lower quartile.

As for worst presidents, I'm favoring James Buchanan.* He successfully guaranteed the Civil War.
You would probably have gotten The Civil War anyway, but it's
interesting to consider the other possibilities.

JG
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-25-2006, 09:01 PM   #27
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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Originally Posted by HFWR
One more time...

Jimmy Carter "...enacted strong environmental legislation; deregulated the trucking, airline, rail, finance, communications, and oil industries, bolstered the social security system; and appointed record numbers of women and minorities to significant government and judicial posts. In foreign affairs, Carter's accomplishments included the Camp David Accords, the Panama Canal Treaties, the creation of full diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China, and the negotiation of the SALT II Treaty..."
Yeah, I'm impressed.

JG
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-25-2006, 09:01 PM   #28
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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Originally Posted by Leonidas
For a guy who was such a great President, why did his own party hate him so at the end of his 4 years?* The Democratic led Congress ignored him half the time, and when he ran for re-election he couldn't even win die hard Demo states like New York or Massachusetts.
Hmmmm... tough one... let's see... maybe he's a detail-obsessed nitpicking fault-finding screamer? *

Not that I remember working with anyone like that in the submarine force.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-25-2006, 09:10 PM   #29
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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Originally Posted by HFWR
Well, I'm not necessarily defending Carter; just quoting Wikipedia... *
Jimmy Carter might have written his own Wikipedia entry. *I'm sure that his presidential library has an even more glowing summary of his presidency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR
One more time...

Jimmy Carter "...enacted strong environmental legislation; deregulated the trucking, airline, rail, finance, communications, and oil industries, bolstered the social security system; and appointed record numbers of women and minorities to significant government and judicial posts. In foreign affairs, Carter's accomplishments included the Camp David Accords, the Panama Canal Treaties, the creation of full diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China, and the negotiation of the SALT II Treaty..."
I won't bother going line by line. *Bolstered/increased payout from SS. *Loverly. *We all know how well the Camp David Accords worked out. *Why did we want to give away the Panama Canal to a dictator? *Nixon open relations with China and it was pretty much in the cards we'd go to full diplomatic relations. *SALT II was pretty much a disaster until ol' Ronnie kicked butt.

The Carter Presidency is best described by the "Malaise" speech. *"We just have to get used to less." *I think that ol' Jimmy was probably the most decent, moral man to be in the presidency during the 20th century but everything he touched went to crap.

I'd rather have these political discussions/ramblings to be non-partisan. *I am tired of people defending losers because they were Dems or Repubs. *Each party has their share of winners and losers.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 09:06 AM   #30
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

I don't wax nostalgic for the Carter administration, but being it's been nigh on thirty years since he was elected, I thought it would be useful to remind myself (and the board) of Carter's accomplishments. I expect they'll compare favorably with the accomplishments of the Dubya administration...

It certainly wasn't meant to be partisan, considering I'm staunchly independent, and don't have fuzzy feelings for any of the recent CEOs of the US.

Btw, vis a vis the Camp David Accords, I believe Egypt and Israel are still "at peace"...

Besides, everyone knows that Billary is to blame... :P
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 09:13 AM   #31
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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Originally Posted by HFWR
I don't wax nostalgic for the Carter administration, but being it's been nigh on thirty years since he was elected, I thought it would be useful to remind myself (and the board) of Carter's accomplishments. I expect they'll compare favorably with the accomplishments of the Dubya administration...*
Yeah, but so will my "accomplishments" in the men's room.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 09:19 AM   #32
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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Yeah, but so will my "accomplishments" in the men's room.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 09:44 AM   #33
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

Carter was overall a weak president, but he didn't do anything to compare to the petty horror that was CREEP (Committee to Re-Elect the President) in the Nixon Administration. And Reagan's Arms-for-Hostages deal ultimately helped destabilize both the Middle East and Central America--he needed all of his acting skills (including the semi-faked too-dumb/deaf-to-understand routine) to get through that one.

As for GW Bush, what may keep him out of the lowest rungs is that he is accomplishing things--the problem is that IMO they are the wrong things (increased executive power, decreased civil rights, decreased taxes on wealthy, useless war, torture and disapperance as national policy, decreasing public confidence in science/rationality, fanning the flames of prejudice aginast gay people, non-born-again-Christians, educated/scholarly people, the you're-either-with-us-or-you're-against-us mentality that exacerbates the divisions in our country, and environmental degradation via Norton's "No lease too cheap" Interior Dept, not to mention Rumsfeld's "War on the cheap--let's use the Guard" Offense Defense Dept). sigh.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 10:11 AM   #34
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

Good summary!
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 10:37 AM   #35
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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Carter was overall a weak president
Yeah, he was....... To tell 'ya the truth, I haven't been all that fond of any of them...... :P
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 11:05 AM   #36
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

Kennedy: Almost got us into a nuclear war

Johnson: Thought carpet bombing was the key to Vietnam

Nixon: Couldn't lie his way out of a paper bag

Ford: Waste of space

Carter: Meant well, but no balls to follow through

Reagan: Scared the Soviets into thinking we had SDI........good poker player?

Bush SR: Couldn't get re-elected even when the public liked how we handled the Gulf War

Clinton: Two terms of getting nothing done............

Bush: Two terms of doing stuff most people don't like............

46 years of misery...........................
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 11:59 AM   #37
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

Quote:
Originally Posted by astromeria
As for GW Bush, what may keep him out of the lowest rungs is that he is accomplishing things--the problem is that IMO they are the wrong things
I used to have a CO whose leadership teachings consisted of a four-box grid. The X-axis was labeled "Smart/Idiot" and the Y-axis was labeled "Lazy/Industrious".

He said he preferred to work for the smart & lazy guy because he'd figure out the most effective way to do something with the least possible effort. He wouldn't chase worthless goals or useless projects. He'd be too lazy to get his fingers into everyone's business, too, so his staff was generally free to do their jobs without supervisory interference.

The dumb & lazy guy never got anything done. You did your job and he was either too dumb or too lazy to figure out what you were doing. No problem there either.

The smart & industrious guy could be a problem because he knows how to do your job better than you. You had two choices-- let him do your job, or reason with him "because he's smart". It was more work than either of the first two choices but it was manageable.

His advice on working for the dumb & industrious guy? "God help you!"
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 02:05 PM   #38
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

Any discussion of Jimmy Carter should start and end with the misery index. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_Index_(economic)

From the Wikipedia:*
During the Presidential campaign of 1976, Democratic candidate, Jimmy Carter, made frequent references to the Misery Index, which by the summer of 1976 was at 13.57%.

Carter stated that no man responsible for giving a country a misery index that high, had a right to even ask to be President.

Carter won the 1976 election. However, by 1980, when President Carter was running for re-election against Ronald Reagan, the Misery Index had reached an all-time high of 21.98%. Carter lost the election to Reagan. During the Reagan era, the index averaged 12.19 with a 7.70 low. [1]
- - - - - - - - - - - -
He was the worst president in my lifetime; he's a good human being; he was just an awful president.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-26-2006, 02:13 PM   #39
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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Any discussion of Jimmy Carter should start and end with the misery index. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_Index_(economic)
MAybe. Or maybe not. The president generally has a far smaller influence on the economy than you might suppose, at least in the short term.
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60
Old 09-27-2006, 07:50 AM   #40
 
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Re: Eating my words, Oil drops below $60

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Originally Posted by Eagle43
He was the worst president in my lifetime; he's a good human being; he was just an awful president.
Not even close compared to the absolute idiot in the white house today!

People were miserable in the Carter Days. He was responsible for getting the interest rate to 20% - Exactly what was needed to tame inflation eventually.

Maybe you'd like to try Nixon's wage and price controls.
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